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 What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem
Alex V - Tue May 4 2010
Okay, we've under-achieved this season – here's my opinions on the how and why.
An easy one first – the financial situation at the club. It's pretty well documented that the club has had barely a pot to piss in over the last 2 years. Sullivan and Gold have been very forthright on the dire financial straits at the club when they took over. Players have been sold, not for the benefit of the squad as such, but to finance debt. The squad has been restructured to reduce the wage bill with players on never-never style deals financed with the prospect of our future income.
There's two options for us here – either we use this situation as a stick to beat the club with, or we actually wonder if under the circumstances the club has done well to (a) stay afloat, and (b) stay in the Premiership. Some reports indicate that the wage bill during the Zola/Nani period had been halved in the space of 18 months – that is a hell of a lot of tough love to withstand for any club.
One definite problem, I think, that is related to the financial problems, is that at the start of the season we had a lack of continuity in terms of the squad. Diamanti and Franco turned up after the start of the season from foreign shores and naturally would take time to either get fit or settle. Faubert is now one of our better players at right-back, but it did take him the first half of the season to get used to the role. Lucas Neill is clearly a player we would have wanted to retain, but presumably financial constraints were connected to his eventual decision to move elsewhere. Collins was sold, presumably, as the least-worst option in terms of generating funds. Jimenez and Hines (and later Nouble) were thrown straight into the first team with barely any introduction to Premiership football. None of this is ideal.
But, I wonder if we might have to ultimately accept that under the financial circumstances it was necessary. It was the way it had to be this season. And in my opinion our squad is plainly still more than good enough to perform better than it has in the Premiership – in results terms I feel we couldn't have done much worse and have still survived.
The next biggie – injuries. Another season where the injury issues in our squad are probably the worst of any team in the Premiership. Behrami wasn't fully fit until after Christmas. Collison has come back and gone again. Ilunga has missed huge chunks of the season. Dyer and Gabbidon continue to have problems. Boa Morte out for virtually the whole season. Davenport – a freak incident that probably cost us the services of James Collins as a consequence. Ashton... well let's not go there. Most crucially of all in my opinion, the loss of Cole, Franco and Hines within a fortnight of each other before Christmas, none of which yet seem to be back and fully functioning at 100% in the team.
A team with those sort of continuous injury problems over a season will always under-achieve. We like to come up with someone or something to blame - the fitness staff, the training pitch, the players themselves. But it's fairly pointless. The most likely explanation is that injuries happen, and this season we've been unlucky with them again.
I hate having to bring this up, but the fixture list has not helped us this season. Most of our winnable home games stacked up after Christmas and had to be played under extreme pressure. If you have to play the worst teams in crucial relegation six-pointers, those games will not be easy. A few 'easy' games earlier in the season could have done us a massive favour. Of course, it would have been better still if we could actually win the more difficult fixtures and take the pressure off the easier ones.
If I had to sum up our actual form this season, I would say we were consistently indifferent. Apart from in March-ish when we were abysmal. The problem this season hasn't actually been the general standard of our play, uninspiring as it has been. The problem has been that we haven't hit any peaks to counteract our troughs. There's been absolutely no consistent period of good form. Last season was a whole lot of mediocre stuff as well, and some really poor form pre-Christmas, but we were electric in January and it made our season. This year there's been nothing.
What I think is undeniable is that there is some sort of collective mental fragility in the current set of players. It's a season marked with crucial concentration lapses, often from pedigree players – how does the coach teach players not to make a crucial error? I think the team as a whole seems to have reacted poorly to defeats – whatever decent form we've built up seems to collapse all too easily after one setback. Upson seems to be captain by default – no fault of his own as such, there is clearly a vacuum in terms of vocal, senior influences on the pitch. People say that Parker should be captain, but terrific as he is, he's no motivator on the pitch either from what I've seen. It's a crucial area that needs addressing this Summer.
I think pace is the other issue – when it's not in the team we struggle, particularly on the flanks. Unfortunately the players who really bring it to the team - Hines, Dyer, and maybe even Boa Morte – have all been missing for too much of this season. It's made us look too one-dimensional at times - without the pace to break forward we spend a lot of time in possession going nowhere. It should be our number one priority in terms of getting new recruits this Summer.
Okay – what about Zola?
It's easy to pick out a number of his faults. We started in pre-season tinkering with a 4-3-3 formation that never looked likely to work in matches, and didn't – I totally defend Zola's right to try new things, but I think the squad was built around his ideas, and it hasn't worked and that's the bottom line. There is a case for saying that he has rotated the players to all of our frustration – clearly the players haven't responded favourably to the many different selections and formation tweaks from week to week. It's the sort of approach that might work with World-class performers, but at our level continuity and solidity is probably much more important. We've started slow and sluggish far too often. I also think we've been setting up too open in matches – not enough cover in front of the defence, especially when we play a standard 4-4-2. These are Zola's selections, Zola's tactics, Zola's influence, and it has not looked good too often this season.
But let's not lay all the blame at Zola. For example, I think Upson, a crucial player in a position of influence, has had a poor season by his standards – it may be to do with him wanting away, or thinking of the World Cup, or maybe his mother is dying or his wife had a miscarriage, god knows. Rob Green is in a similar spot. How much blame can Zola take for these players form? Some, but not all. Yes he helps create the atmosphere around the squad, and he selects the team, but if key players just aren't performing at their best there's only so much in theory he can do.
And these are players in the spine of the team who all the youngsters look up to and feed off. I think our younger players have really shown the strain this season (Tomkins, Collison, Noble, Spector), but Zola's very public remit is to develop these players for the club's future – it's difficult when the pressure is on to do this, yet when Zola has taken young players out of the firing line (Tomkins, Daprela, Stanislas) he has been criticised for doing so. Whatever he does he cannot win in many cases.
I don't want to sound too defensive about Zola – I think his job should definitely be in the balance this Summer. This is a results business, and our results have been poor. I just think we have to accept that the problems that the club has faced this season go way beyond one inexperienced manager. If we replaced Zola but did nothing else to tackle our problems we will fail again and again.
I think we might have a better perspective on this season as time passes. If more teams go the way of Portsmouth and Hull, we might be thankful to have survived. If the players who've underperformed this season find their form next time round we'd have a better idea of how good (or bad) they actually are. We'll see how the younger players improve or decline, and whether it was worth the time spent on their development. We might see whether the manager is a work in progress or doomed to failure. We might uncover more of the facts behind the inner workings of the club and how they've affected our season. This might be a painful step along the right path, or part of the slope towards decline.
And I can't help feeling that 'we are where we are'. A set of circumstances has put us 14th-17th in the league, and that is the level at which we find ourselves. We have no divine right to be ahead of any of the teams who are above us. Sunderland, for example, have spent a significant amount of cash regenerating their squad over the last two seasons, while we have been contracting the squad and selling players – is it really a surprise that we are below them? Yes Fulham are doing a brilliant job on little resources, but give them 10 injuries in the early part of next season and we'll see how they cope with that!
I think the optimistic view is that we're hopefully heading in the right direction as a club. We're paying less wages on a smaller squad with more academy talent in it than we have had for years – a great position to continue the rebuilding. It's been a torrid few years after the Icelandic disaster, and I think the club has done well to weather that storm up until now. This season may be a symptom of that, but I think we come out of it far healthier than some might be predicting.
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Other articles by Alex V ...
> Season's Prospects...
> Do Sullivan & Gold really know best?
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CaptainBlueAndClaret
8:42 Fri May 21
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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Xnulian Rrudho,
RE: "It's very old now & getting very boring"
...you mean it is older than you!! **Smiles** |
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Xnulian Rrudho
8:28 Fri May 21
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Can we stop re-hashing this thread please? It's very old now & getting very boring |
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CaptainBlueAndClaret
8:26 Fri May 21
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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Thames Ironworks 7:05 Fri May 21 on another thread, (Sky Sports News understands) AVRAM GRANT AGREES DEAL TO BECOME NEW WEST HAM MANAGER
RE: "Think Grant has something to offer. I mean take the team bottom of the Premiership to a FA cup final says a lot."
BillyBrown,
RE: "What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem
Next season = relegation if Grant is manager."
If correct, then West Ham Utd sack a Manager which kept West Ham Utd in the Premier League and replace him with a Manager who couldn't keep an opposing team in the Premier League and were relegated in the same season.
I wonder if this is a FIRST? |
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BillyBrown
8:32 Thu May 13
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Next season = relegation if Grant is manager.
FACT. |
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Texas Iron
8:31 Thu May 13
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10-15th next season would be a great improvement IMO... |
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CaptainBlueAndClaret
8:27 Thu May 13
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When the two Daves get in their wonderful new Manager and most likely West Ham Utd finish next season out of the 'top four'/ the 'top six'/ the 'top half', then perhaps 'realism' might dawn on both of them... |
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Jasnik
2:03 Tue May 11
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Ilan ? |
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claretandblue
2:00 Tue May 11
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Agree with A-o-I entirely. Form dipped even more under G&S, and wage bill increased!! |
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Ozziehammer
1:07 Tue May 11
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Good article Alex and this could turn out to be the turning point that you suggest. I had supported Zola until the change in tactics resulted in the long ball to Cole returning and no attempt to play the ball out of defence to give the midfield a chance to dominate.
So much of our problems this year resulted in this pathetic tactic. When you play the ball to Cole from Green we probably retain the ball in the opposing area on 10% of occasions. Which means that 90% of the time it is retained by the opposition who in turn are in control of the midfield.
I don't know how many games we simply couldn't get a touch in midfield against the likes of Wigan, for fuck sake.
You can put this down to a lack of confidence in the defenders ability to bring the ball out but confidence can be be generated. If you said we didn't have the skills that's another matter but with Parker, and Behrami I don't believe that is the case.
Therefore you must blame Zola for not recognising what needed to be fixed.
For most of the season we could blame injuries but after Xmas we had most of our players back and arguably played our worst football of the season, again you have to look to Zola.
He says that he has learnt much, I'm not so sure. I would give him a maximum 10 games next year to see if he has learnt anything. If we havn't won at least 3 or 4 of them I'd be saying that he hasn't learnt much at all and it was time for a change. |
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Tony Starks
10:59 Sun May 9
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Hope we get stuffed so Zola is finally shown the door. ys Jimmy Murmar (New Jersey). |
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chim chim cha boo
6:01 Sat May 8
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"when you look at the fans at the ground they still support Zola"
Around me at Fulham and at various away grounds over the last couple of months I haven't heard anything positive about Zola whatsoever. |
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Lee Trundle
9:47 Sat May 8
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"God I wish one of the other two had bought us instead of the two stooges."
Thats a bit of a stupid thing to say when there was only one other bid, apart from G&S one, that was entertained. And that was from a fan that bid £351. |
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Willtell
9:42 Sat May 8
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I agree with all that you say RC and have said so many times myself. Yet if past performances were a guarantee to future performances then no-one could ever possibly improve.
Next season we start again with a clean sheet. Zola now knows he needs to strengthen the side in key areas; the tactics needed to compete in the Prem and that pre-season preparation is vital.
The thing that gets me is that there is a unanimous majority on here that want Zola out but when you look at the fans at the ground they still support Zola. Are we a vocal majority because we use a forum as a substitute for actually going to matches?
It seems that Duxbury wasn't a complete fool after all and wrote a 12 month pay-off clause into Zola's contract. That may make it easier for Sullivan to out Zola but will he? £1.9m out the window when we are so deeply in debt with future income mortgaged, may be a good enough reason to retain Zola if he commits to make those improvements.
Me? I'd bring in Avram Grant as Director of Football while he's available. I'd pay for it by agreeing a new contract with Zola for half the money if Zola is up for it so that he gets to learn from a master tactician and motivator and it costs the club no more..... |
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Reality Cheques
8:29 Sat May 8
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You are wasting your time , because many / most do & have taken account of the others problems.
You & others simply ignore that & ot just don't agree with it.
They've listed the issues & spent numerous posts & threads discussing the merits of them or otherwise, yet still come to the conclusion that he's done a poor job & see no evidence that he's actually learnt anything.
Indeed, some of the "other problems" have been of Zola's own making.
Generally al that comes back in response is that management & tactics don't really matter anyway . Either that & or a faith based response in keeping him based on nothing more than he will get better & he was a good player & a nice guy.
The other shit needs to be sorted out for sure , but Zola is a very big part of the problem & certainly not any solution. |
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Mex Martillo
8:11 Sat May 8
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I know I am waisting my time here, as perhaps we all are.
But, what you do not appear to acknowledge is the importance of all the other problems that Zola has had to deal with this season. You put it all down to him, his tactcis and team selection.
I consider this to be simplistic and wrong. I would stay with Zola and fix all the other shit first. |
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Steve P
7:36 Sat May 8
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Any manager finishing 17th ought to be concerned about the sack, as well as his own ability. |
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Sven Roeder
7:23 Sat May 8
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It's chicken and egg. If G&S thought Zola was competent they wouldn't be looking over his shoulder so much. Can't recall them being such back seat drivers at Birmingham.
Not to say Sullivan in particular won't keep shooting his mouth off but he would say he has stuck his oar in because Zola has been detached as we seemed to be plunging out of the league.
A fresh start with their choice of manager in place will be best for everyone. |
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Ooh-Aah-Ilunga
6:52 Sat May 8
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I blame the twats also known as our new owners as well.
Plenty of blame to lay at Zola's door, sure.
But who was responsible for:
a) Our shite signings in January (Mido? Benni Mc?)
b) Undermining the manager (FFS if you want Zola out be a man and sack the fella already)
c) Making the biggest shite statements at the wrong time (No, I'm really sure he couldn't wait until the season was already over before he mouthed off about selling the whole squad).
And now this morons want to micro manage our summer transfer policy as well, which is fuckin bollox given their less than stellar record in the market in January and the fact that we don't even know who's going to be the new manager (or if Zola stays).
Now you lot can cunt Zola off all day and I wouldn't have any problems - but tbh I can't see a proper manager who would come in and constantly be undermined and have his hands tied about transfers.
God I wish one of the other two had bought us instead of the two stooges. |
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theaxeman
4:29 Thu May 6
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sold to the wrong people, sacked the wrong manager, appointed the wrong manager, didn't sack the manager when the new owners came in. |
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Lee Trundle
4:24 Thu May 6
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"But you people over state the management aspect, tactics, team selection"
Do people honestly believe this shit? |
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Tony Starks
4:23 Thu May 6
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Just think Zola's clueless and has been found out this season, the same as promoted teams who suffer second season syndrome, look forward to his departure after Man City game. ys Frank Cullotta (Las Vegas). |
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Dazzler1985
1:37 Thu May 6
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Yeah the manager, tactics and team selection has such little effect on the outcome of the match...
Let's randomly select someone in the stands as manager, randomly select the tactics ou of a hat, then randomly select which players are to play and where.
*rolls eyes*
Idiot |
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Rivs
7:08 Thu May 6
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Poor squad yes but still more than good enough not to go down to the last game, especially considering we have 3 or 4 england intls
Overstate tatics and team selection, if you didn't any Joe Public could manage a football team
Tactics is a huge part of the game and zola is woefully lacking in that dept |
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Mex Martillo
6:34 Thu May 6
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Of course I can see Zola and the team have not done well, table and results show us that.
But you people over state the management aspect, tactics, team selection and give little credit to the poor squad and asociated problmes and off field problems.
It is a combination fo all this, it all needs to be fixed. You think that includes replacing the manager. I do not see that that is needed. I would fix the rest first.
Good example from oneteaminlondon, Faubert is not a defender, in fact I still think he is a crap player and I wish that he was still in Madrid. Zola worked a miracle getting a few good games out of him. |
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Jasnik
1:43 Thu May 6
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Harry Redknapp has always been a good manager he is just crap when the chairman lets him loose with the money. |
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Jasnik
1:41 Thu May 6
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Billy I will say one thing I tried to give zola time but this season has drained me .
I think I am on the the band wagon of Zola out , it might be knee jerk and wrong but he just doesn't seem to be doing the simple things right anymore .
He started off well but now he seems to have lost the plot. |
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Jasnik
1:39 Thu May 6
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Also the way some posters go on about Noble.
They were sayign the same about Frank .
Then they wonder why when they are older players they suddenly become good .
Lets keep Tomkins , Noble, Collison , Hines and Stan. |
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Jasnik
1:36 Thu May 6
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Ferdinand 'lacked concentration' and we were 'laughing all the way to the bank' when Leeds gave us £18m for him.
They are saying the same about Tomkins now . So even want him gone .
Wish some of the supporters would just be a bit patient . |
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Billy Blagg
12:33 Thu May 6
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Nice attempt to try and explain what is - once again - the unexplainable Alex. I shed tears every bloody year trying to figure out what it is about this club that makes it, time and time again, run around in circles shooting itself in the foot. The Board, Manager and players change but nothing else does in this bloody club. Perhaps it's us?
I'd always struggled with the legacy of West Ham's unerring ability to screw itself royally year after interminable year since I was a lad but fucked myself up big time when I wrote 'Nightmare'. Going through hundreds of posts, years after the event really brought home to me just how screwed this club is. 2010 and Harry Redknapp is the most succesful English boss. At West Ham he was a 'has been' by 1999. Rio Ferdinand 'lacked concentration' and we were 'laughing all the way to the bank' when Leeds gave us £18m for him. Frank Jnr? Fat and only in the team 'cos of his old man. Terry Brown thought he'd pulled off the coup of the century when Johnson left for £6m. Defoe? An arrogant little git but wouldn't it be nice if he was our arrogant little git? And on and on. Choose your own example.
I think one of the reasons I've supported Zola this season is that if 75% of WHO want rid of him then I know full well he'll be managing Real Madrid to CL glory in 5 years (You laughing? Go back and see what people thought when Redknapp when to Southampton). I agree with your assessment of his (Zola's) position now but I have another angle. I bet he never ever has another year like the one he's had here and, 'nice bloke' that he is I think I actually want him to go somewhere else and be successful than to try and struggle on with this albatross of a club.
Nice try Alex but in answer to your question what went wrong. The answer is, as it always is, fuck knows. But I wish I did. |
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oneteaminlondon
12:24 Thu May 6
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Please people - lets get one thing absolutely straight: Faubert is NOT a defender.
Just watch the guy - he is absolutely clueless as a right back, has no idea at all about positioning and constantly leaves the door open. He is instinctively not a right back no matter how much he tries to make make it up by pace, effort and the odd solid tackle.
I hesitate to say that he's even a right midfielder - 95% of his crosses being totally shit. Only one cross stands out of the entire season and we all know which one that was don't we.
Faubert is definitely one of the players we should look to replace. |
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Dazzler1985
11:21 Wed May 5
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Reality Cheques
Agreed.
But Mex has stated in the past he thinks Zola is a good manager (based on what, no one knows).
Mex has even stated that he can't see Zola's poor management this season (regardless of all the abysmal records Zola has broken. Compounded further by the poor and shameful performances that Zola's side have produced this year. How many times this season have we rolled over without a fight?). |
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Reality Cheques
11:08 Wed May 5
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"I really am sick of this 2 year manager merry-go-round we are on."
I'd guess most would agree with the principle. However, that's down to the previous owners & to the idiot Duxbury in appointing a manager with zero experience & one who's unfortunately turned out to be poor & inexperienced at that.
Zola's part of the problem not the solution, no matter how much wishful thinking is heaped upon him. |
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Dazzler1985
10:55 Wed May 5
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E12
Hahaha
Someone has to put this idiot in his place!
Mex
The sales had an effect. Just as the poor transfers did, where we wasted what little money we had and neglected the obviously weak areas of the squad.
"With the confidence of the team on the floor we had a run of tough games, top table manure, chelscum, arse and teams ready to really fight and lost them all."
Why were the side lacking confidence and looking so clueless and unorganised?
We rolled over for Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal (not manure, chelscum and arse, you child). Then, to put the icing on the cake, for our worst run without a win for some fourty years, we saved players for the 'easier' games and were out fought and undone tactically.
Any criticism for Zola? |
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Mex Martillo
10:03 Wed May 5
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I sorted Dazzler out a few weeks ago, put the boy straight |
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E12IronsE12
9:39 Wed May 5
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Resist the urge Dazzler. |
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Mex Martillo
9:33 Wed May 5
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I think the sales and pre-season effect should not be underestimated.
The defence sales and no replacement especially late sale of Collins, had a clear effect with us letting in lots of goals which was only particially countered by us scoring many more goals than expected considering the percieved weakness of the attack. Can Zola be give any credit for the early season form of Cole? And for the part of the team he had together for preseason at least doing their job?
However, as the defence began to improve or rather Faurbert finally started to look like a defender and Kovac imporved (any credit for Zola?) and the number of goals leaked decreased, but at this time we lost most of the attack to injury and were in much the same situaltion but with few goals in or out.
With the confidence of the team on the floor we had a run of tough games, top table manure, chelscum, arse and teams ready to really fight and lost them all.
Finally a couple of last minute wins and all that made us better than three even worse teams and we were safe...
As you may know, I would give Zola another season with some stability, a balanced squad and time for pre-season training.
I really am sick of this 2 year manager merry-go-round we are on. |
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Dazzler1985
8:07 Wed May 5
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Reality Cheques
8:33 Wed May 5
Spot on.
Duxbury/Nani/Zola, WH = 0.9 pts/game
G&S/Zola, WH = 0.94 pts/game. |
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New Jersey
7:40 Wed May 5
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Alex, a well written and perceptive article, but forget about this fixtures bollocks and you can make a case for Zola, but no one can ever persuade me that Spector deserves to play at left back when he has Deprela available. He played him against the top six and he could have been slaughtered, but wasn't then doesn't pick him again! To me that sums Zola up and why I believe he should go! |
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Coffee
3:30 Wed May 5
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Ernie, understand your frustration, but that's not really what's being said, is it? |
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AKA ERNIE
3:28 Wed May 5
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so after 184 posts is it still everybodys fault apart from zola |
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Reality Cheques
1:37 Wed May 5
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"The 'outside punter' article put up by alex x was actually written by Johnny Giles. "
Is that the Jonny Giles who was one of the main masterminds who undermined one of the best managers that Britain has produced & got him the sack after 33 days.
Clearly he thinks Clough was utter shit & Zola's a great manager. |
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Coffee
1:36 Wed May 5
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Admiral Lard
12:19 Wed May 5
I quite enjoyed your earlier post - nice and mellow and nostalgically pissed. There is an argument to say that many posts would be dramatically improved with that kind of nutrition. |
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Willtell
12:35 Wed May 5
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I applaud your efforts Alex but wish you had been more decisive in your conclusions. I guess your pro-Zola streak shines through but we're all guilty of having our own pre-conceived notions....
My pre-conceived position is that Zola has -
1. Made lots of awful tactical decisions.
2. Agreed to signing awful players or picked them himself.
3. Ignored the team's weak positions or settled for not strengthening them.
4. Was a yes-man puppet for Duxbury.
Saying that I still can't help but like the fella and his reputation like most do. I also acknowledge that it hasn't been easy for him as a novice manager but....
In the modern parlance, Zola has not performed to the standard that he set for himself (or rather that Duxbury said he set for himself) and will have a staff appraisal meeting with Sullivan and Gold sometime after the last game. It should be a two-way affair. Zola needs to have his weaknesses highlighted out by the club's owners as they perceive them. Zola needs to tell S&G where they have let him down.
Zola then needs to be given time to decide whether he wants to or has it within himself to make those personal changes to enable the directors to allow him to continue. S&G have to undertake to stop undermining the manager although in fairness to them, that seems to have not been a problenm at Birmingham where 3 managers struggled or got relegated only to keep their jobs......
If Zola decides to make that commitment to S&G to their satisfaction, then we should all be prepared to give him the chance next season as well. No question. It is all any of us would want in our own employment situations. More importantly, WH has to stop acting like we did under Duxbury and the Icelandic management.
That is legally how it should be done to avoid an automatic courtroom defeat in any future "constructive or unfair dismissal case a la Curbishley." I expect Karen Brady to ensure that her bosses stick to that necessary management process.
If Zola decides he cannot operate the way S&G want him to, then he either resigns or comes to a mutual agreement to cancel the contract. That is when S&G will have a strong negotiating position.
If that is not what happens then nothing has changed. WH is still being run in a maveric irresponsible way. I really hope the fans can give our new management the time and space to follow the correct path. Either that or just fuck the little chimp off and cough up several millions! |
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Admiral Lard
12:19 Wed May 5
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*Note to self, do not post on an Alex V article with 4 pints of Harveys and 2 bottles of Rioja inside you..........
As you were.. |
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marlonsrightsock
12:15 Wed May 5
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It’s all down to the fixture list
© Alex V |
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Swiss.
12:10 Wed May 5
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1. Started pre-season too late and without new signings so not giving them time to settle in
2. No back-up for Ilunga.
3. Knowing Ashton wasn’t coming back didn’t have enough reserve strikers and relied on Cole
4. No real RB
5. Zola continuously changing the team
6. Zola playing people out of position
7. Zola tactics wrong especially in starting line-ups and substitutions
8. Bad form of our key players i.e. Green, Upson and Cole
Also I still wonder what would have happened hadn’t Cole setup Defoe against Spurs and we had won??? |
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isolated hammer
11:48 Wed May 5
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Some very pertinent points there Alex V. You could spend the whole of the summer on this post-mortem though I feel. If what you say is true regarding how much the wage bill has been cut, then yes you can say that to remain in the PL having done that and not replaced those players with players who could come in and hit the ground running is testament.
However, the club does need a shake up. It needs everyone pulling in the right direction and it def needs Sullivan keeping stumm.
Zola has made huge mistakes and all too often in my opinion. If he is to stay, it is to be hoped he will have learnt from these when he thinks about it all in the summer.
But, my gut feeling is that a new manager should be brought in, with his own ideas, who can mould a team and build a squad.
Who that man is, I really don't know, but Avram Grant is the closest I can think of.
I for one will be glad to see the back of this season and just hope that the players can put just one sublime performance in at the weekend and shut Sky Sports News up, who actually talk as though we are beaten already. |
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Razzle
11:36 Wed May 5
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We're paying less wages on a smaller squad with more academy talent in it than we have had for years – a great position to continue the rebuilding = Selling club, what we are reknowned for. |
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Harvs
10:19 Wed May 5
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The 'outside punter' article put up by alex x was actually written by Johnny Giles. It was complete garbage when I saw it in the press and read it the first time, that opinion hasn't changed after several days. Typical opinion of an ex-player fawning over Zola because he was a good player and he's a nice bloke supposedly.
Good article Alex as ever, though I can't really agree with much of it. West Ham are completely unwatchable at the moment in my opinion, the quality on offer is shockingly low. We continually look like we are playing in treacle, speed of thought and speed of movement is just non-existent.
And the blame for that lies squarely with Zola and Clarke. I was quite happy to give Zola the benefit of the doubt initially, but he's turned into a major irritant with his manner and 'nice guy' persona. His team preparation and tactics don't appear to exist. Hopefully he'll be gone by the end of the weekend.
Great post by Clack as well, those players we've let go we're crying out for now. Desperate times for the club really. |
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geoffpikey
9:26 Wed May 5
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The fixture list was to blame, it was outrageous. We've had to play better teams than us nearly every week. Chelsea didn't have to do that, did they? |
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Baggins
8:40 Wed May 5
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claretandblue 9:11
They've not helped the situation? By not selling anyone and actually (shock! horror!) signing a couple of players? One of whom scored the goals that kept us in the league?
What a bizarre thing to say. |
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Reality Cheques
8:33 Wed May 5
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"........is as much to do with whether or not he & Sullivan can actually work together."
Hopefully not for WH's sake & hopefully G&S won't base any decision to retain him because of finance. Zola needs to go Monday latest.
As for G&S antics, at best you can argure that they had no material effect on results when the dye had already been cast. I think the average points per game were slightly better after their onwership to have made a difference of one point.
Nothing to shout about for sure , but just doesn't stack up with any claim that they had that much/any effect with what what on in matches.
The attitude & heart of the team were poor well before G&S arrived & it remained the same after. Same applies to Zola - all the oral Cuddles & BBQ's with Duxbury telling him what a great manager he is had the same net effect as Sullivan telling him in public & no doubt private that things were not good enough.
Different approachs - same net result equates to Zola being one of the problems & no where near being the solution next season or any time soon. |
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BlackHammer
7:53 Wed May 5
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One word, spector. anyone who keeps on playin one of the worst players I have ever seen, week by week, costs us goals week by week.
that alone is a sacking offense. seriously robert , does the odd ricket song, is tens times better than spector |
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Ruddock
7:47 Wed May 5
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Very interesting article Alex ! |
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Texas Iron
7:44 Wed May 5
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Annus Horribilis...
Time to move on... |
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Nicky Morgan
7:39 Wed May 5
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If we would have hung on to Neil and Collins, we would have finished 10-11, similar to last season. |
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Far East Hammer
4:19 Wed May 5
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Excellent article.
Though I may get cunted off (again) for stating it, the one thing you missed out was the loudmouth Sullivan's antics to stir things up.
And following from this, whether or not Zola should stay is as much to do with whether or not he & Sullivan can actually work together. |
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claretandblue
2:53 Wed May 5
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Jasnik, some players need telling their good, need motivating, etc. Zola is being underminded in this. Cloughie mentioned this in his Autobiography where Owners and Chairman were a hindrance and just wanted fame, and being in the media. Have a read, excellent.
Fulham's owner keeps away from media, leaves it to manager, who he appointed. Although he likes his say on other matters. |
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Alex V
2:37 Wed May 5
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>>> Last saturday we played a team to whom we had not lost a league game on theirt ground since 66 and a gane of any sort since 74 (league cup)
Enjoyed your post Lard, but these stats have been thrown around a lot and are deceptive. The stats make it sound like we've played them 44 times without defeat, but we've actually only played Fulham 9 times at Craven cottage since 66 - 10 if you count the cup match they won. They've beaten us at home in 01 and 03. And Fulham haven't exactly been much of a force in recent decades - it's little surprise that we beat them regularly for a time. |
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Jasnik
2:23 Wed May 5
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claretandblue
2:14 Wed May 5
etc. I wonder why? enough said.
because of G&S ????
becuase the past managment were looking at the money and not building the squad
I think you are getting too much into the media spin than giving them the chance to see what they can do . |
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claretandblue
2:14 Wed May 5
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Riv's, don't know Tony, only what is being said by G&S in media, mouthing off. Would you work under them.
Wham, no more to say, said enough. Enjoyed Alex's article, seem's honest to me.
We are in big trouble, but Manager and team need to pull together, but again would you with comments flying about. Just remember, whoever leaves normally goes onto be a better player, etc. I wonder why? enough said. |
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Admiral Lard
2:00 Wed May 5
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Alex, once again my friend utterly sublime in your support of our beloved club You are a superb writer and to be respected as theman that held this forum together for many a long dark year.
There is little to be argued with in your sumation of this quite dreadful and yet I feel strongly opposed to the view that, at the end of the day, it comes down to the leadership aan management of the players.
Last saturday we played a team to whom we had not lost a league game on theirt ground since 66 and a gane of any sort since 74 (league cup), a club that threw the kitchen sink against one of Germany's finest 3 days beforehand, that made 7 changes in a squad smaller than ours and no less desimated by injuries and we still failed to give them a game.
In isolation ok, but its not, is it. no one can disagree with your comments about our poblems with injury and poor trading but we have rolled over time and again. I was at wigan last september with around 4,000 or so other Hammers who, by full time, wondered why the hell we had bothered because quite clearly the tean hadn't.
Alex I would love have a beer with you rather than discuss this on the board, i guess we are men of a similar age and love this club with an unbreakable passion. we see things in a different light
Lets have a pint with ged and ted, talk bollocks till the early dawn and work why none of us can work out the one thing we all love
West Ham United |
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Hammerhermit
1:37 Wed May 5
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Alex V excellent post-mortem. Clack excellent post.
What i think some of you need to understand is creative accounting. Whether it be Duxbury or G&S. Duxs has obviously ben playing with figures to satisfy the banks. I'm sure he will have had the banks go over everything with a magnifying glass. Anyone who has ever been in business or taken a large loan will have experienced similar.
G&S will have lumped everything into the last financial year. Next year the figures will have improved dramatically. It will make them look great in the eyes of the fans and football world. In their position we would all have done similar.
As for Zola our results were good mid last year, then we sold Bellamy without a suitable replacement. Then Cole got injured and we were left with Tristan and Di Michele up front. We never looked like scoring.
Then theres 4-3-3, hate the formation with a passion. The top teams all play similar 4-3-3 styles and win. Chelsea horrible to watch under Jose but bloody effective.
What Zola didn't seem to understand was they were using Rolls Royces. He tried to use the formation with Fords. It didn't work and as Alex said his job must be on the line.
I still think with the right replacements Zola could do a decent job. Whether the owners are prepared to give him the chance we will find out soon.
Trouble is whoever is bought in will probably have had more failures than success stories.
Most important thing is finding players with Scott Parkers ticker that can play. Also keeping Scotty would be a massive boost. |
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Reality Cheques
12:02 Wed May 5
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Clack,
Yep, many were taken in by Duxbury, the project & many that were saying things weren't as bad as they were from a financial viewpoint.
I wasn't amongst those as you well know , but I'd certainly include Alex amongst them. In fact you only had to do a big of digging to know it was utter bullshit. Now you can argue at the time & since that it was in some ways bullshit to protect the club , but bullshit it always was.
Equally, I'm not that convinced as you are that Zola wasn't heavily invoved in the transfer dealings.
Certainly in terms of having an input/agreeing to the players, but obviously not on the contract side etc. Giving his understandable point about Dorrans I think we can take pretty much as fact.
Thus I do blame him for the unbalanced squad as he had the final say on whether a player joined or not & indeed that's how it should be.
Given that & everthing else that's been said ( other than he's a Chelsea etc which I really couldn't give a shit about) I don't think that it's that hard to judge Zola as a football manager at all.
One would hope that as time & experience goes on he'd get better & learn. In 20 months do I not just see little evidence of that - I've seen none.
Probably the boards at Newcastle & Norwich at the same thoughts & ideas about experience improving Roeders ability as a football manager. Either that or AMoCS wrote him a personal reference. |
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chim chim cha boo
11:51 Tue May 4
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Baron, serious question- do you attend games? |
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WhamZam
11:43 Tue May 4
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clack
11:40 Tue May 4
"a) he wasn't involved in the transfer dealings."
Has that ever been shown to be definitely true? I`m simply curious, as I haven`t seen any actual quotes from the club about that being the case and anyway I find it very, very hard to believe/accept. |
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clack
11:40 Tue May 4
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Reality - I think Alex's post is fair, especially regarding Zola.
But it overlooks how bad we were at end of last season -
The problem is that a lot of people got taken in by all the pre-season spin and lies from Duxbury - he constantly told eveyone how good things were when they weren't.
But personally, I think it's difficult to judge Zola considering:
a) he wasn't involved in the transfer dealings.
b) was left with a very unbalanced squad, both in terms of positions, and leadership and experience (plus, most of the players aren't very good, anyway!). |
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WhamZam
11:35 Tue May 4
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The way Zola persists with Spector I don`t blame CCaB for his suspicions.
SWTOC! |
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David L
11:32 Tue May 4
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Sorry Baron, but drivel it is not. About 95% of the posts on this thread are well considered, factual reasons why Zola has to go that you simply cannot argue with. Absurd? Thats so far from the truth its well....absurd. Fucking hell, you make him sound like Alex Ferguson, when he's more like Frank Spencer. I thought that episode of him on the roller skates was hilarious. |
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Baron von Evilswine
11:26 Tue May 4
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Yes it is its drivel. This is why we laugh at you Zola haters. Your arguments are so absurd its barely worth replying.
Just in case you weren't sure Zola did not TRY to relegate us. Try a new tack in bile, that one won't scour. |
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Reality Cheques
11:26 Tue May 4
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Clack - yep spot on & needed to be posted twice.
By the way it's just Alex's normal trait of re-writing history. |
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David L
11:24 Tue May 4
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He's not wrong though, is he Baron? |
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Baron von Evilswine
11:21 Tue May 4
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CarlitosClaretandBlu
10:46 Tue May 4
"Why are you wasting your time defending a Chelsea legend who made mistake after mistake and tried to relegate us? "
As a counter to drivel like that no doubt. |
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WhamZam
11:16 Tue May 4
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clack
11:11 Tue May 4
Good post. Those dreadful transfer dealings are something I`ve often thought about but it`s just been too painful to put into words. The irony of course is that all this happened after we brought in a well paid 'expert' to help with the transfers. |
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David L
11:12 Tue May 4
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Just a thought Alex, about the fixture list. Weren't you saying originally that we neednt worry too much as the games in 2010 would be much easier for us (presuming then that you knew we'd be in trouble at thre end of 2009). But now you're saying that we were under enormous pressure to win those 'easier' 2010 games' which in itself made them unwinnable?
You cant have it both ways. |
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clack
11:11 Tue May 4
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What you have overlooked, Alex, is how bad we were at the end of last season.
Apart from the last home game against a poor M'Boro side, we were pretty appaling in those last 10 games - the warning signs were there.
And then the team was further weakened with the loss of Lucas Neill.
A lot of the signing of the so-called project have not been cheap.
Six million for Diamanti, a player who had spent all his career drifting around serie B and serie C (there must be a reason why, at 26, a higher level club had never been in for him), and Savio, whose fee ranges from 3 million to 9 million depending upon which reports you read, was purchsed from Brescia, where, suspiciously, Nani's father-in-law is the President. Savio was not cheap, even if you go with the lower figure.
Etherington, Zamora, Bowyer, experienced Premiership players, easily good enough for any mid-table Prem team, and who would walk straight into the team today, were given away at scandalously low prices.
Etherington sold for 3 million, replaced by the inferior Diamanti for double the amount.
Bowyer, a goalscoring midfielder who was never given a decent run in his correct position in the centre of the park at West Ham is now on course to become Birmingham's player of the year, and is exactly what we need - someone who can pass, create and score goals from midfield - he was given away for nothing! Replaced by Kovac for 1.5 million.
And if Darren Bent goes for 16 million and then 13 million (after being crap for a season) then what is Zamora worth? Realistically, around 12 million I'd say.
If we value Pantsil at around 1.5, then Zamora was given away for 4.5 in that joint deal - I'm almost crying with despar as I write it - and I guarantee that the sum total of fees and wages of all the has-been and injury prone fatties that we have tried to replace Zamora with - Di Michele, Tristan, Franco, McCarthy, Mido, Ilan - come to far far more than what we received and saved by selling him.
Etherington, Bowyer and Zamora were not among the high-earners at the club.
And meanwhile Spector, who had always looked as if he was struggling whenever he played, was given a new 4 year contract. It makes no sense.
Let's not forget, that in their wisdom, the executors of the 'project' also saw fit to reward Dean Ashton, a player not recovered from injury, a whopping 4 year contract extension, making him one of the highest paid players at the club. Many on WHO reckoned it was clkear that he couldn't jump properly in those last few games he played - just before being awarded the bumper contract.
Than God for Hull and Burnley, and Portsmouth for self-destructing. Those three clubs have saved us.
I find it very difficult to find anything positive about West Ham at the moment. |
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clack
11:11 Tue May 4
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What you have overlooked, Alex, is how bad we were at the end of last season.
Apart from the last home game against a poor M'Boro side, we were pretty appaling in those last 10 games - the warning signs were there.
And then the team was further weakened with the loss of Lucas Neill.
A lot of the signing of the so-called project have not been cheap.
Six million for Diamanti, a player who had spent all his career drifting around serie B and serie C (there must be a reason why, at 26, a higher level club had never been in for him), and Savio, whose fee ranges from 3 million to 9 million depending upon which reports you read, was purchsed from Brescia, where, suspiciously, Nani's father-in-law is the President. Savio was not cheap, even if you go with the lower figure.
Etherington, Zamora, Bowyer, experienced Premiership players, easily good enough for any mid-table Prem team, and who would walk straight into the team today, were given away at scandalously low prices.
Etherington sold for 3 million, replaced by the inferior Diamanti for double the amount.
Bowyer, a goalscoring midfielder who was never given a decent run in his correct position in the centre of the park at West Ham is now on course to become Birmingham's player of the year, and is exactly what we need - someone who can pass, create and score goals from midfield - he was given away for nothing! Replaced by Kovac for 1.5 million.
And if Darren Bent goes for 16 million and then 13 million (after being crap for a season) then what is Zamora worth? Realistically, around 12 million I'd say.
If we value Pantsil at around 1.5, then Zamora was given away for 4.5 in that joint deal - I'm almost crying with despar as I write it - and I guarantee that the sum total of fees and wages of all the has-been and injury prone fatties that we have tried to replace Zamora with - Di Michele, Tristan, Franco, McCarthy, Mido, Ilan - come to far far more than what we received and saved by selling him.
Etherington, Bowyer and Zamora were not among the high-earners at the club.
And meanwhile Spector, who had always looked as if he was struggling whenever he played, was given a new 4 year contract. It makes no sense.
Let's not forget, that in their wisdom, the executors of the 'project' also saw fit to reward Dean Ashton, a player not recovered from injury, a whopping 4 year contract extension, making him one of the highest paid players at the club. Many on WHO reckoned it was clkear that he couldn't jump properly in those last few games he played - just before being awarded the bumper contract.
Than God for Hull and Nurnley, and Portsmouth for self-destructing. Those three clubs have saved us.
I find it very difficult to find anything positive about West Ham at the moment. |
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Reality Cheques
11:02 Tue May 4
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"but there are a lot of people who believe that Zola will go on to be a successful manager, sometime,"
Indeed , & I've yet to here anyone yet give a realistic & logicial reason why.
Heard the same thing said previously about the likes of Tony Adams & Terry Butcher. |
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cm7906464
10:56 Tue May 4
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claret&bluespecs 10:36 Tue May 4
Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem
cheap compromises....
Diamanti £5m+
Savio £9m? maybe? |
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Coffee
10:51 Tue May 4
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claret&bluespecs
10:36 Tue May 4
A good little summary, but there are a lot of people who believe that Zola will go on to be a successful manager, sometime, somewhere. I'd love to see him bring success to West Ham, but it's not looking like that's going to happen. |
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cm7906464
10:51 Tue May 4
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clueless cnut of a manager. It all went wrong when he tried to build a team around Jimenez who was utter shite.
Way to many players playing out of position. Up against anyone with half decent wingers Faubert is clueless.
No wingers, no pace throughout the team, Spector a regular. No creativity.
I want to see a clear out in the summer from the management to Playing staff. No way we can survive another season with that squad of players. |
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EL06
10:49 Tue May 4
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Resources was definitely a big part of it, but to not also identify the weak areas of the team is the job of the manager.
It was a the poor use of the loan system that was an issue. Jimenez was big disappointment, but did we really need him? This was a player they had played a handful of games over the last 2 seasons, he was never going to be ready for the Premiership. I the summer we should have got in 3 quality defenders either on loan and a winger. This should have been the same plan in the winter transfer window - what did we do bring in 3 strikers!!! No defenders or players to provide service.
This is the fault of the manager and board. |
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sparkie
10:48 Tue May 4
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What went wrong?
>Scott Duxbury |
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CarlitosClaretandBlu
10:46 Tue May 4
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We deserved to get relegated. Glad we didnt. Sully is spot on fuck everyone other than Parker off (Id keep some academy products though).
Why are you wasting your time defending a Chelsea legend who made mistake after mistake and tried to relegate us? |
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Rivs
10:43 Tue May 4
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I think the current squad although poor should have been more than good enough to avoid relegation with almost a game to go |
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claret&bluespecs
10:36 Tue May 4
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As far as I can see there are now very few ‘pro-Zola’ voices on this forum although there seem to be quite a few who attempt to point out that he should be cut at least some slack for the difficult circumstances in which the club has found itself.
On the other hand, his critics seem largely unprepared to acknowledge any mitigating factors at all.
Maybe Zola is the poor manager that many say he is, and I’m not arguing with that view, but let’s not pretend that the circumstances of the club and resources available to the manager are comparable to those of, say, 2007 when Eggy was throwing cash around like there was no tomorrow. If Zola had been allowed to keep Bellamy, Neill and Collins and also given a transfer kitty for two or three genuine quality additions rather than told to make do with either cheap compromises or nothing then I believe the season could have seen us safely in mid-table rather flirting with relegation. |
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Rivs
10:19 Tue May 4
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Some good points, we attack with no pace and we try to continuously play 4 3 3 even though we don't have the personnel
Have to blame zola for continuously playing players out of position and having no plan B
Injuries happen to every team although not in the same volume we have had although I don't agree we have been unlucky with all as our fitness which seems really poor must be a large contributor
Cand b every thread I've read you rattle on about gold and sullivan its getting really boring now are you a relative of tony fernandes? |
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WhamZam
9:49 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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claretandblue
Do you have anything else to say? |
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BM06
9:48 Tue May 4
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Better change this thread to What went right?, that way my answer will be short and sweet.
Fuck all |
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northbankboy68
9:46 Tue May 4
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I think this is a fair assessment of much of the situation we faced over the worst season I can recall for many a year.
There is one thing though that i simply cannot get out of my mind - and it is that Zamora, Etherington, Konchesky and Pantsil have all had a great season. Yet these players were slung out of West Ham for not being up to the mark. Now we learn that all our players bar Parker are up for sale. If we do not get the managerial appointment(s) right what odds do you give me that Upson, Green, Cole, Noble, et al will go on to bigger and better things? How many times have we seen this? |
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claretandblue
9:23 Tue May 4
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Alex, forgot to say, fully agree with "Outside Punter". Porn kings will be our ruin. Must get them back out quick. |
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claretandblue
9:11 Tue May 4
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Alex, excellent article. On the ball. I would only add that the new owners have not helped the situation.
Well spoken. |
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Alex V
8:55 Tue May 4
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Fair comment chim. My point is that the principle of those tactics is well established. I don't think stanislas or diamanti played noticably worse on either wing, but if you think they did then fair enough. |
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Jasnik
8:47 Tue May 4
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THe problem all season is we just are too slow to react every where on the pitch.
We seem to think by just running around chasing the ball until we are exchausted at 70 mins then wonder why we lose.
We never played as a unit. |
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Jasnik
8:42 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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alex x
5:37 Tue May 4
That actaully read like a load of bollocks .
He blames the whole season on G&S . |
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EL06
8:39 Tue May 4
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All great points from everyone. Few Key things I noticed:
- Inexperienced manager. The lack of any consistent formation or game plan was obvious all season. In addition, not dropping players who were needed to be dropped and paying players out of position is down to the management team.
- Fitness - Injuries to key players is one thing, but this team has not been fit all season. Other teams in similar positions (Wolves) out worked and out muscled us.
- Replacing sold players - it was obvious the money issue was huge hence Neil and Collins being sold. But to not replace them with cheaper options was insane. Faubert is not a right back and Costa took half a season to get match fit. Too much was expected of Tomkins especially with Upson's lack of leadership and form.
- Playing players in the correct positions. Dimanti is not a left midfielder, Noble cannot play let wing and Spector is not a a left back. Also, I get the idea of right footed players playing on the left, but it was obvious that Stanislas and Diamanti were more effective on their normal wings.
Still roll on next season |
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chim chim cha boo
8:06 Tue May 4
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Alex with your reply to my post earlier it's clear we're still a million miles apart in our opinions.
To say a narrow team is a good thing and hold up Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Barcelona as examples of where it works is simply laughable when compared to our team and how miserably it failed. Every week. Likewise 'wingers' (we haven't fucking got any) implying poor old Stanislas should make it work because Lionel Messi, Arjen Robben and Ashley Young can do it, makes me picture you sitting at home on the computer in a giant white rabbit costume.
Actually, if you really are saying all that, when those tactics failed so miserably because the personnel weren't good enough, who's responsibility was that? Who chose to continue with those tactics when they failed again and again? |
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Texas Iron
7:53 Tue May 4
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By the way Chalkie...
I thought...and so did most folks...that the fixture list was very kind to us...at the end of the season...
...a "fact you don't mention...!!! |
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Texas Iron
7:43 Tue May 4
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Chalkie...
Other sides had ..."many injuries"...that's a relative term...
There are 38 games to be played...19 at home...19 away...
in a season...
Why should the "fixture list" be an excuse for not winning games... |
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Moncurs Putting Iron
7:42 Tue May 4
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Post Mortem?
Rumours of our demise have been greatly exagerated.
The patient is ill and we must examine the symptoms but Post Mortem is a bit much. |
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Alex V
7:40 Tue May 4
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Totally fair comment, crowley. I defend the principle - whether it has worked in practice is another matter. |
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dicksie3
7:39 Tue May 4
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What went wrong?
- clueless shit cunt manager
- lazy, moping, self-pitying cunt players (+ clueless shit cunt players i.e. Spector)
Simple as that.
All I can add really is thank fuck we've got Super Scotty Parker. |
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CrowleyHammer
7:33 Tue May 4
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Alex V i don't agree that just because other teams play wingers on the wrong sides means that when zola does it, it isn't a mistake, if you don't have players capable to do it then it is a mistake to try and more importantly KEEP doing it. |
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David L
7:31 Tue May 4
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And Propodkin is absolutely right re Faubert. He's not one of our better players, as he's no fucking defender. He just asked Zola to play there. Yep, great management there Zola. |
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David L
7:29 Tue May 4
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Strange you just pick out those two irrefutable points from ALL the problems this season Chalkie!! |
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Chalkie the Ponce
7:19 Tue May 4
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So TI, we didn't have many injuries, our schedule was stacked against us... seem like facts to me, but as i said they don't fit your opinion so lets ignore them....... |
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Texas Iron
7:17 Tue May 4
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Chalkie the Ponce 7:10 Tue May 4
I didn't see many facts in Alex' piece...all opinions...just like the rest of us... |
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Texas Iron
7:15 Tue May 4
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Agree with a lot of what you say but...that's no excuse for a manager in his second season...and with a highly experienced and highly paid assistant to end up where we did...and in the shambolic manner in which we did it...
Some major deficiencies...
Unable to ORGANISE the Defence...
Absolutely no CREATIVITY in the side...
Inability to MOTIVATE highly paid footballers...
Playing players CONSISTENTLY out of position...
Too many short sideways/backwards passes...followed by long punt...(Sounds like Curbishley at best)...
Too slow in getting strikers in...
etc etc etc... |
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Chalkie the Ponce
7:10 Tue May 4
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Nice peice Alex, and not much anyone can really argue with. But some on here will, who think that opinion out wieghs the facts of the season. |
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Propodkin
6:50 Tue May 4
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I got to 'Faubert is now one of our better players' and stopped to laugh a lung up
oh dear |
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David L
6:44 Tue May 4
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I think Chester Road summed Zola up perfectly recently when they said that, durinng the long stoppage in the Wigan game, Martinez was constantly shouting, organising, motivating, and geeing up his players, and Zola (and the tramp Clarke) did FUCK ALL. Just sat there. Doing nothing. Is that the mark of a manager? |
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Baggins
6:37 Tue May 4
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Alex V 6:24
How "narrow" we are isn't the problem.... having a squad devoid of creativity is the problem.
This isn't helped of course by the fact the two "creative" midfielders signed last summer were nothing of the sort. |
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Baggins
6:34 Tue May 4
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"Thought I might throw in this article written by an outside punter whom commands a lot of respect for his opinions. "
I'm not sure how he commands alot of respect when he writes ill informed bollocks like that.
Is it the same type of "respect" that well known tabloid journalists command? The kind that comes from people who know fuck all about the game? |
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i-Ron
6:29 Tue May 4
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Alex, then again, everytime Spector has been up against a decent winger, we've got slaughtered and lost? |
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Alex V
6:24 Tue May 4
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I think we should listen to all opinions, outsiders or no. Some things they are right about and some are wrong. I agree with some criticisms of Zola but not with others.
On the narrowness of the team, this is a modern trend that is not invented by Zola. Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Barcelona to name just a few - all relatively 'narrow'. The reason for this is that it gets more players in goalscoring positions, and stops teams getting outnumbered by packed midfields. Some of our best wingers in recent memory have been 'narrow' - Sinclair, Benayoun, Behrami. They help out the midfield, confuse defences and pop up in space. I would argue we need more of this, not less.
On the wingers on the wrong flanks - Lionel Messi, Arjen Robben, Ashley Young etc etc. It's another modern trend that is adopted pretty much across the board these days. Not a Zola mistake at all, and has little to do with our problems this season.
Rotation and tactical flexibility is perhaps a criticism of Zola if he does it to the detriment of the side, but he's certainly not the only manager to do it. Most clubs rotate much more often than they used to.
Zola has made many mistakes, but we must acknowledge that picking the bones of a manager's decisions is a tricky, subjective business. |
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chim chim cha boo
6:05 Tue May 4
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Good article Alex, it's a pleasure to see you've not just blindly backed Zola as it's so easy to do when you're loyal to your club. I backed him for ages and I'm sure everyone wanted him to do well here but there comes a time when it becomes impossible to defend some of his judgement.
As JAFKD kind of said below, this is a time when outsiders really haven't a clue how Zola's worked since he's been here, it's far too subtle for them to understand. How the fuck are they to know it's not the big bad Davids who tell the team to play so narrow, make five changes to a team whether they've won, drawn or lost, play right-footers on the left and left-footers on the right, give a right-winger the right-back's job and wait over half a season while he learns how to tackle and all the other things that leave the average supporter scratching his head.
If these outsiders with a bit too much to say think Zola's a good manager why don't they give him a go managing their team? I'm sick of this 'nice guy Zola' mantra they chant, like being nice is paramount to being a decent manager. Actually you could argue being nice has been his undoing as he's tried to keep all his players happy by giving them a go in the team. That's why our play has looked so disjointed, as it would if you made that many changes. It appears he's only learnt that in his last three or four games where he's picked the same team. Unfortunately he's picked the worst player in the first team at left-back- probably because he's a model pro who trains hard.
Before the new owners arrived the excuse why we were doing so badly was because of all the upheaval in the boardroom, now they're here it's because they're taking some of the responsibility away from him. If I'd put my hard-earned cash into this car-crash of a club, I'd want a proper say in the workings too. |
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LeroysBoots
6:00 Tue May 4
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Sorry Alex, you made a great effort for trying to defend the indefensible, however Zola has proved this season that when the going gets tough his strategies are blown away
All of those things you stated are true but its how you deal with it that makes you stand out
Zola has been bereft of tactical nous this season, end of |
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i-Ron
5:48 Tue May 4
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"I reckon if Gold and Sullivan somehow managed to buy into Manchester United, within weeks Alex Ferguson would be gone and the club would soon be worrying about relegation."
What utter fucking nonsense. |
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JustAFatKevinDavies
5:39 Tue May 4
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alex x
your outside punter does know he shouldn't just make stuff up?
"But I don't think Zola has to worry too much about finding another job. When he had resources and was mostly left alone to look after the team, he did very well.
Now, he has demonstrated that he can work under extreme pressure as well and understands what it takes to survive. These are the qualities you want to see in a good manager. Zola will find work easily if he decides to quit and if I was him, I would do it without delay. " |
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alex x
5:37 Tue May 4
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Thought I might throw in this article written by an outside punter whom commands a lot of respect for his opinions.
"DAVID Gold is not a football manager. For the past few days, he's been behaving like one and that should confirm everything Gianfranco Zola needs to know about his short-term future.
Since West Ham saved themselves from relegation last weekend, Gold has been talking a lot. The first thing he spoke about was his manager and how he wanted to keep him but then suggested that Zola might have his own ideas about the future which don't include Upton Park.
Twice in the one interview he said that Zola might have a different plan, clearing the way for the moment, should it come, when a much put-upon manager reaches breaking point and runs out the door.
DISPLAY
Run he certainly should and as far away from Mr Gold and his partner David Sullivan as he can get. These two macho men of business like to live the life and show everyone they are doing it.
Part of the image involves the public display of football knowledge. They have been in and out of Zola's dressing room since they took over and made life a misery for him at a time when results were going against the club.
Gold and Sullivan lectured the players about cost cutting and value for money, claiming that West Ham had no cash and that everyone would have to take some pain.
They then went out and spent on Mido, Benni McCarthy and Ilan before undermining their manager almost fatally by wondering aloud whether Zola was “too soft” for Premier League management.
Maybe, in their world, Zola is too soft. In the real world, many football men struggle but football isn't the real world and that's the mistake men like Gold and Sullivan make when they buy into it.
Gold and Sullivan are ruthless businessmen who have made a fortune and good luck to them, but their model for football club ownership is obviously deeply flawed. It didn't work too well at Birmingham and it won't work at West Ham either.
Yesterday, Gold spoke about the West Ham squad as if it was his to play with. On one level, it is, but no club in history has been successful when the chairman buys, sells and picks the team and believes he knows best, which he clearly does.
I reckon if Gold and Sullivan somehow managed to buy into Manchester United, within weeks Alex Ferguson would be gone and the club would soon be worrying about relegation. They can't seem to stop themselves interfering and all their dealings at St Andrew’s were handicapped by the same, stupid mistake.
I feel very sorry indeed for long suffering West Ham fans. They were able to breathe a huge sigh of relief after Zola successfully steered the team to safety but within hours of celebrating that crucial 3-2 win over Wigan, they must have been plunged back into despair when they heard what Gold had to say.
OUTBURST
His latest outburst told West Ham fans that every player in the squad is for sale if the right price is offered. Just a few days earlier, he was telling us that he wants to hold onto the best players.
Apparently, only Scott Parker and maybe Matt Upson are in that class. West Ham bid £4m for Graham Dorrans from West Brom yesterday but were turned down and I wonder did Zola have anything to do with that bid. I doubt it somehow.
I reckon Gold and Sullivan already have their own ideas about the players they should bring to Upton Park and I don't think it matters a whole lot what Zola, or any other poor unfortunate who ends up managing West Ham, thinks.
But a queue will form rapidly if Zola walks. There are many unemployed managers and there will be a few more around the place before the summer is over.
The fact that the owners will make the job difficult in the extreme is neither here not there. It's job insecurity which might just persuade Zola to tough it out.
He has some bargaining chips after keeping the club in the Premier League despite the fact that his best players were sold from under him.
But I don't think Zola has to worry too much about finding another job. When he had resources and was mostly left alone to look after the team, he did very well.
Now, he has demonstrated that he can work under extreme pressure as well and understands what it takes to survive. These are the qualities you want to see in a good manager. Zola will find work easily if he decides to quit and if I was him, I would do it without delay.
He will have a strong bond with his players and will feel loyalty towards them but he has an even bigger duty to himself. |
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mattyb
5:08 Tue May 4
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To sum it all up
What Went Wrong?
Zola a novice manager was appointed as a yes man by the previous board, he had no say over selling players, players were brought in by Nani and the ones that Zola did want Savio & Jiminez were shit.
Nice bloke, Inept Manager - please shut the door on the way out. |
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icwhs
4:46 Tue May 4
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good piece
all true, i say keep Zola |
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BillyBrown
4:42 Tue May 4
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Dogshit but we still made the play offs. |
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boltkunt
4:26 Tue May 4
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Orange Hammer
This isn't the worst West Ham squad, but I make you right on the manager front.
Out team under Pardew in the 1st season on the Fizzy was fucking dogshit. |
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Steve P
4:25 Tue May 4
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100 wimpy excuses |
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Baggins
4:25 Tue May 4
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I've done this to death with various posters on here so can't really be asked to go over it again.
Let's just hope the mistakes of the last three years are not repeated, in terms of overstretching ourselves in the first place and then in terms of trying to preserve our Premiership status on the cheap. |
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stewie griffin
4:24 Tue May 4
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Fair enough eric, but whilst I dislike the imbalance of the squad, I don't believe it's a squad that should be battling relegation from this league. I may agree on Kovac actually, he's done ok as far as the limits of his ability allow him - but the others have proven to be better than they have shown this season in the past.
It is, broadly speaking, the same group of players that finished 9th the previous season, and in a stronger league (again in my opinion). I had this conversation with another poster the other week - and the truth is that we the only way we'd ever have known how good/bad these players were would have been if Zola had gone around Christmas and a new manager had worked with the exact same players for a few months.
Since that didn't happen, almost all of what is written on here can only be opinion - which makes for decent debate (or argument) but is a shame in terms of knowing exactly where we are. |
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Orange Hammer
4:18 Tue May 4
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There was me thinking it was all because we had the worst West Ham team ever and the worst ever manager. |
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Dinsdale
4:15 Tue May 4
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It would be easier to name the things that went right.
Nothing.
The club have been shit from top to bottom all season, not even a change in the owners have improved things.
I fear with masses of squad changes and a new manager we will still be relegation candidates. |
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Balliol Iron
4:09 Tue May 4
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I would lay a little more blame at Zola's feet in terms of man management, match-day tactics and setting up the squad with a pathological aversion to wide players. Overall, however, little to disagree with.
On Fulham, let's try to keep their success in perspective. They have a £215m interest free loan from the owner. We had an owner who, if you believe our former CEO, was borrowing from his own bank in WHU's name while at the same time telling other Directors that he was investing equity. |
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eric5bellies
4:08 Tue May 4
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Stewie Griffin
I believe soem of the players other than Parker have "performed to the maximum of my ability?" Thatts the whole point. They are simply not good enough.
Kovac
Spector
Stanislas
Jimenez
Behrami (Sorry bur his use of the ball is rubbish !)
Mido
It goes on and on.
The squad has little dpth in some areas, the obvious one is full backs, although Deprella has potential.
We have a number of players that we expect to much from because they are still learning the game. Hines and Collison for example.
As for Zola you are completely correct, and he has a very experienced assistant beside him, that most leaders in ordinary life do not have the luxury of.
All I hope is that we can bring in a stable Manager with experience and start picking up a few 1 - 0 away wins next year, with a team that is cohesive and respect the Manager, but are also playing for their place in the side.
Heres hoping. The dream goes on. History tells me it may not happen. |
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weststandboy
4:04 Tue May 4
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A very well written, logically thought through piece that makes an awful lot of sense to this reader.
Well done |
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VirginiaHam
4:01 Tue May 4
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As we were fighting for our PL lives, the 'gone missing' part at Liverpool, Bolton (h) Wolves (h) etc etc was as frustrating as anything due to the expectation level that timely wins or draws (Everton in particular sticks out) gave the fans. |
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AKA ERNIE
3:56 Tue May 4
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they realy should start making frying pans out of zola cos fuck all ever sticks to him |
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WHU(Exeter)
3:56 Tue May 4
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"Certain displays such as the most recent at Anfield stunk the place out. I can forgive a team not being as individualy good as the opposition but that does not preclude them from putting up a fight."
Totally agree, what's worse is that we're only talking about a couple weeks back, when the need for a fight had long since been all too evident for months beforehand.
Nothing seems to have been learnt, and that game was a good snapshot of all too much of what's happened this season.
Played 90 minutes of half hearted attempts chasing the shadows of a club putting in an average performance, and even when we caught up with the shadows, they won 80% of the fucking tackles. |
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Befnal
3:51 Tue May 4
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stewie griffin
3:12 Tue May 4
Post of the day young man, bang on the money! |
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Coffee
3:48 Tue May 4
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stewie griffin
3:12 Tue May 4
That's a good, constructive post. |
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WhamZam
3:45 Tue May 4
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That`s not a request, btw. |
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WhamZam
3:45 Tue May 4
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stewie griffin
3:12 Tue May 4
fuck me, you write well! |
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,
3:32 Tue May 4
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What Alex has written is a list of excuses not reasons.
How do we account for the relegation escape?
The teams around us that we needed to beat we seldom managed to even draw with. Certain displays such as the most recent at Anfield stunk the place out. I can forgive a team not being as individualy good as the opposition but that does not preclude them from putting up a fight.
We were a pushover for much of the season to the extent that we much more deserved to go down than the 42 point squad.
Our form, post Bellamy, last season began to falter and it rang alarm bells for some of us in the close season when coupled with the loss of Collins and Neill. Form never really recovered and we were woefully short of competency and experience in attack and defence. Zola/Clarke never got the eleven to defend as a team with the result that our goals against stat is once more very disappointing.
Zola never seemed to either express his dismay during the game or afterwards about the often sad performances of the team rather he seemed always to feel they were doing the right thing but were just unlucky. That being the case it appears they were doing what they had been told and this is worrying.
We have a good and enthusiastic fan base with a home gate average of 33K plus and frankly what we have been served up with, especially when taking the cost into account, is little short of a piss take.
We've got new owners, they are both seen and heard to excess, and clearly they don't think they are getting enough bang for their buck. Well though I deplore their style I echo their sentiments and I see major changes coming during the close season.
Bring it on. |
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Alex V
3:27 Tue May 4
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Lots of thought-provoking responses. Thanks all, and keep em coming... |
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NCHammer
3:21 Tue May 4
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I thought Green had a pretty good season all in all.
Expectations are very high for him because he has played so well in recent years. He's at a point where anything he lets in is questioned as whether he could've done better.
IMO, he's established himself as England number 1 for a reason. He's a great keeper that had some problems at times with an ever changing defence. Keepers need that stability in front of them.
Without him, I'm certain we would've been relegated.... |
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VirginiaHam
3:15 Tue May 4
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I think there some of this is on the money and some isn't. Here are my thoughts.
i) The squad lacks players who are capable of delivering width and pace but still contains players with enough ability that we should not have been dogging it out with the likes of Burnley and Hull.
b) Big players win big games, yet only Parker came to the party. If you look at the squad, Green, Upson, Behrami and Cole all went missing at crucial times and made mistakes that undermined the stability of the team. Parker should be in the WC squad but probably won't be, Upson and Green will be but may not have played well enough for seasoned internationals.
c) I do think the fixture list hurt us. Having won at Wolves impressively, had we played a few more shite sides early and won we would have been in a different part of the table and in a different place mentally.
d) Zola; hmmmm, Clark, hmmmm. Short on ideas, I am now willing to admit, and I'm a little surprised by Clark since I expected more from him. Zola should have been allowed to play with formations too, but there are games to play 4-3-3 and games to play 4-5-1 and I think mistakes and naivety took over.
e) Finances and court cases. I think it's a miracle that we are still a PL side. It has to be utterly distracting as a player, a non-playing employee or fan, add I'm sure that 'feel' has transmitted itself throughout the club and helped build a stifling atmosphere.
I hope we can move forward from here, blend the playing staff better and build on an emerging stability for next season. It does feel odd to have been threatened with relegation for most of the season and yet not end up worrying about the last game of ther season because the outcome was 'done and dusted' with games to spare. |
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stewie griffin
3:12 Tue May 4
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Hmmm, thanks for taking the time to write this, Alex - I couldn't help but feel whilst reading it that this is where you and I differ as PEOPLE, not necessarily in terms of seeing or reading the game differently; and since that's the case that's just the way of the world, so I'm not disagreeing with anything you say, even if I would approach it slightly differently.
It reads to me, and I realise that this was not your intention, as a list of excuses, a list of mitigating circumstances for a very poor season.
My view on things, and perhaps it's something that the circumstances of my life have made me lean towards, is really relatively simple - it's about personal & collective responsibility.
The post mortem, for me, should consist of every single person at the club asking themselves some very simple questions at the end of the season:
Have I, over the course of the season, performed to the maximum of my ability?
Have I, over the course of the season, put 100% effort into everything I've done for this club?
If, individually and collectively, everyone at the club was able to answer 'yes' to both of these questions, then I firmly believe we would have enjoyed a far more successful season - competing with the likes of Stoke, Blackburn & Fulham rather than down the wrong end of the table. If everyone at the club was able to answer 'yes' to both of these questions; then the off-field shenanigans become an irrelevance, as our on pitch performances would not have been so questionable. To use the financial situation, fixture lists, global warming, the credit crunch, whatever, is simply to abdicate responsibility for oneself and one's own performance - and, funny enough in General Election week, is endemic of teh problems we face in society as a whole, EVERYTHING is always someone else's fault, there's always a mitigating circumstance or two to hide behind. I simply cannot agree, and as I said, if everyone at the club had taken responsibility for themselves and their own performance, then the season would not have been such a wash out.
In the case of the players - this means that they have let themselves, the club, the supporters and a manager they profess to like, down.
In the case of the manager - as in every walk of life the whole world over (I see no reason why this situation should be any different) a manager is judged on the performance of his staff and the results that his team achieves. Quite obviously, it has not been good enough, and for that Zola must be accountable. He has failed to extract the best from his staff, made a number of poor decisions, and has played a major part in our poor season.
We must live in the real world, we've existed way outside of it for too long - and if only 1 of a team of 25 or so people that I was in charge of was performing to the level at which they are capable for a period of 9 months or more, then I would expect to be removed from my position in charge of them.
The fact that Scott Parker would be able to answer 'yes' to both of the above questions, and his performances demonstrate what is possible when he can answer in the affirmative, merely highlights the fact that NONE of the other people associated with the club can do so. Ironically, had his performances not proved what is possible, there may very well be more sympathy for his colleagues and his manager on these pages. |
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mongo
3:06 Tue May 4
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Bonza,
If you look at win percentages he is even worse than Roeder.
The problem lies with Zola. Simple as that. |
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Uncker
3:03 Tue May 4
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Alex, although there are a myriad of reasons for the under performance I believe the main reason was the loss of Lucas Neil & James Collins. These together with Ilunga & Upson formed a tight defensive unit last season.
Lucas Neil was not quick but he had "nous". He was able to intimidate opponents & organise the team. It is a shame that he was such a mercenary, deciding not to take up what has been reported as a decent offer.
James Collins was an even greater loss. He was our best defender. Inspirational to the rest of the side. He wore his heart on his sleeve & gave the impression that he would die for the cause. It is no coincidence that Villa have one of the best defences in the league (7-0 notwithstanding).
Laid back Ilunga lost his form & then his place due to injury. The return of last seasons Ilunga will be welcomed as would James Collins. |
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Bonza
3:00 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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The one interesting question is that if Zola is our worst ever manager how did he manage to get us to 9th last year? playing what I thought was pretty controlled effective football.
One could put it down to beginner's luck but any rookie manager needs time to learn. Most things that changed were down to financial constraints, pre-existed Zola (Ashton, Dyer etc) or injuries. Greanted he has made made mistakes - Spector rather than Daprela, Diamanti rather than a pacey player.
Success usually comes with stability.
I'm not saying Zola's the answer, he has made some poor decisions, but it doesn't take much to go right or wrong to change direction quickly. |
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mongo
2:46 Tue May 4
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Simply because this is written by Alex V and is probably full of pro-Zola nonsense blaming everthing from the Davenport stabbing to the fixture list instead of simply accepting the fact that Zola is the worse manager we have ever had.
I'm out. |
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Jasnik
2:45 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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NCHammer 2:38 Tue May
yeah ignore the first line , I was half way typing got side tracked and finished off with a different thought leaving the word don't there |
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Johnny Allen
2:45 Tue May 4
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BARRY? BARRY EVANS? |
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Westside
2:45 Tue May 4
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The defence. Selling Collins and releasing Neil, together with Illunga being injured most of the time.
We have already let in 20 more league goals than last season. We've actually scored 4 more.
Wether Zola didn't have the finances to replace those players we lost, or thought he could manage without, is a moot point. |
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Jasnik
2:43 Tue May 4
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bah humbug
I mean they will let the new manager get on with his job , with more control over team affairs as they will understand how he wants to work from day one .
That what happens when you change your post half way through. |
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One Raducioiu!
2:39 Tue May 4
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An intelligent, balanced, well thought out article. I pretty much agree with everything you've said. If only there were more people on here prepared to look at the bigger picture.
Yes, maybe we should have done better, but certain events and uncertainty have a huge effect on clubs.
Just look at Newcastle last year. They went down with a pretty good team. That could so easily have been us, but it wasn't. We should be grateful for that and move on, whoever is in charge. |
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NCHammer
2:38 Tue May 4
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Jasnik - I don't ever remember hearing of them interfering with transfers at BCFC.
I think, when they have a manager they are confident in, they will allow him to get on with his job and do the best they can to agree deals for the players that HE wants.... |
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Shasta Mcnasty
2:38 Tue May 4
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Good article Alex, I believe the previous owners should not have given Zola and Clarke the long contracts, but then Brown and Co made the same mistake with offering Roeder the contract they did.
Zola's inexperience shone through this season, when Blackburn were in the mire earlier in the season, a calm head in Allerdyce steered them clear; Bolton when in it turned to Coyle.
I hope G&S learn from this and can get a manager who is capable of steering us away from the drop zone using experience, not experiments. |
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Jasnik
2:35 Tue May 4
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If Sullivan and Gold get another manger in I don't think they will let him get on with his job.
I actually think Sullivan , was suprised when zola probably said he didn't deal with transfers , so thats why sullivan put that bid in then zola is suprised he knows nothing about it .
So obviously they both are not sure how this new set-up works , so time to sit down and get a proper understanding or show zola the door. |
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jakehammer
2:34 Tue May 4
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I find that i agree pretty much 100% with Alex's original post. we have had a torrid time over the last couple of years, including the tevez fiasco.
zola has had to operate with his hands tied for much of his time here.
people on these forums praise the pornstars for taking over our club and "saving"it, but i beg to differ in some respects. obviously it is good to have steady hands on the tiller, so to speak, but when those same "steady hands" are gobflapping and undermining both the manager, his staff aand the players openly in the press, then those idiots are guilty of undermining the whole club and for that alone i can never forgive them.
things might have got a bit better if they had actually worked together with all concerned to help and not hinder the teams effort this season, we might have had a slightly smoother ride. but they didn't.
the arsehole that is sullivan made it his lifes work to show the world that he had no confidence in zola and wasn't shy in going public with that opinion.
the bloke is a total cock imo and i wish he had never set foot in UP.
the attention seeking arsewipe. |
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oioibaldy
2:34 Tue May 4
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Ilunga signs a big money contract gets injured, young left back is waiting in the wings, clueless Chelsea Chimp picks a fizzy pop right footed yank to play left left back, Chelsea chimp refuses to make timely substitutions during key games...team roll over week in week out....end of! |
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i-Ron
2:32 Tue May 4
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Well that's still down to Zola for allowing a non football man like Duxbury to run the first team squad before him.
Zola's supposed to be a fucking legendary Premiership and International footballer who had a 20+ year career.
It's not as if we gave the job to some 15 year old kid.
Zola allowed the situation to get worse. |
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HammerPassionForLife
2:31 Tue May 4
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At least Alex V is now waivering regarding Zola, it's a sign he is finally entering the realms of reality and is starting to realise what some of us were saying last year: Zola is an inept "manager". Simple as that. |
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NCHammer
2:31 Tue May 4
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Alex - So are you assuming he had no say on the players brought in and what positions they play in?! |
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Sam Spade
2:31 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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Have you mentioned a reliance on too many youngsters who weren't ready for the amount of games they were asked to play in? |
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E12IronsE12
2:29 Tue May 4
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You say that i-Ron, but how do you know what say Zola had in transfers? You don't. No one really does.
Zola was bought in because he was precisely the sort of manager who wouldn't rock the boat. His job was to coach with what he was given.
I'm sure there was dialogue between him and Nani, but to what extent I don't know. You state that he decided to get rid of Neill, Collins and Bellamy, where I believe it's a lot more likely that he wanted to keep all three, but had little or no say in the matter. |
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Mr Polite
2:29 Tue May 4
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People on here kept telling me one of the benefits of having Zola was the massive draw he would be for big name players. |
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alex x
2:29 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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i-Ron
2:24 Tue May 4
Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem
alex x, no i blame him for not replacing them.
Like I said later on, he should have had the bollox to sacrifice the valuable high earners and balanced the squad out.
************************************************
i-ron,
Can you or someone confirm to me, who exactly was responsible for the signing of players? I thought this role was out of his hands.
In particular, who signed Benni McCarthy ? |
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i-Ron
2:27 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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4 Jun 2009 - Neill turns down new contract at West Ham.
17 Sept 2009 - Neill rejects another contract offer to join Everton.
So we had 15 fucking weeks to think of a plan B!
We done fuck all |
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One McAvennieeeeee
2:27 Tue May 4
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This is basically an article to blame everything else other then the Manager isn't it?
I'm out. |
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NCHammer
2:24 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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i-Ron
2:24 Tue May 4 |
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i-Ron
2:24 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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alex x, no i blame him for not replacing them.
Like I said later on, he should have had the bollox to sacrifice the valuable high earners and balanced the squad out.
instead we had 1 keeper, 1 senior left back, 1 dog shit right back, no wingers and 1 striker to start the season.
that's zola's decisions, not the the boards. he should have put his foot down and saw we were going to be in deep trouble and he ignored it. |
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E12IronsE12
2:21 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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i-Ron...
Yes, we offered him a new contract which he refused. How exactly was that Zola's fault? If anything, surely it proves he wanted to keep him? |
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Mr Polite
2:20 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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Baron
Would you care to point out where I said it was all the fans fault?
Thanks |
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alex x
2:20 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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i-ron,
You blame Zola for Bellamy's departure.
Do you really believe he had any say in that decision ? |
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i-Ron
2:19 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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E12, that wasn't speculation, we offered Lucas Neill a new contract.
We had the money. Even after the pointless signing Kovac had joined |
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International Donald
2:17 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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this is very long.
is it all necessary |
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NCHammer
2:17 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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David L
2:12 Tue May 4
Great post. Sums things up nicely....
As I've said before, too many excuses. You can always find them if your looking for them...... |
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E12IronsE12
2:17 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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David L
Whilst I agree with plenty of those points, I think 2 and 6 are pure speculation on your part. I'm also bewildered by number 9. As bad as Zola has been, I'm not sure if he can be blamed for "deciding on Nani". |
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Baron von Evilswine
2:15 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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Mr Polite
1:35 Tue May 4
"Of course they should have done what they felt right regardless of the fans feelings, but I still think these fans should take some blame."
Yes its all the fan's fault for backing their manager and players. How disloyal of them. Shockingly poor form.
Good piece Alex. Nice to have a rational voice on here. Like all incidents, our disappointing season has many causes
(1) bankrupt former owners
(2) leading to a required sale
(3) which took half the season to sort out
(4) leading to a lot of uncertainty off the park about their future at the club
(5) and distraction on the park leading to poor performances
(6) while as you point sustaining a lot of injuries to key players
(7) when the club can afford little in the way of back up players
(8) and then new owners come in to the club halfway through the season
(9) and promptly even lay more stick and pressure on their staff
(10) who are mentally and emotionally very fragile and play accordingly.
As to Zola I think he has done not great, but ok under very difficult circumstances. He's very young and inexperienced and has made many mistakes. He probably sticks too long with some players (like Spector and Kovac and for a while Mido) and formations like his 4-3-3. But we don't play well with 4-4-2 either and we don't have much depth to cover some of these players so considering what he has had to deal with it, its amazing he and clarke kept us up at all.
Of course this was helped by how poor the PL is these days with so much of the money going to the rich clubs rather than the poor that the poor clubs are now very poor and play accordingly. This is a problem far greater than West Ham, and Zola can only play the hand he's dealt. He ensured we weren't one of the worst 3 teams in the league, so well done to him, Clarke and the team.
Although it looked really bad in the middle of it, in the future we might look back and realise how closely we dodged a bullet this season. But the gun's being reloaded with 3 more bullets for next season already so we do need to sort things out quickly if we are not just to defer our fate.
The injuries are an interesting one in that I was amongst many that condemned Curbs boasting about throwing out Pards modern sports medicine and going back to the boot room, leading to our far greater injury list under Curbs than Pardew. But now the high injury list has continued under Zola so either his medical team are no better than Curbs or there really might be something in Curbs concerns that there was some problem either with Chadwell Heath or the Boleyn that was causing all these injuries. Since its happening under more than one manager then luck may just not cut it as a reason.
As to our future, well its obvious that the owners (or at least one of them) have no faith in their manager and the vast bulk of their players, a feeling that is reciprocated by both, so an inevitable massive parting of ways is in the offing. Whether Sullivan is best able, based on past and current performance, to achieve a complete overhaul of management, medical, scouting and players in a way that leaves us better off next season than this, I'm not overly confident about. Certainly not as confident as you. In fact confident is probably not the right word. |
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BRANDED
2:15 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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We were one of 7 very poorly performing teams this year. Some of those teams had bad financial troubles that must have upset morale. Some had Managerial issues. Some were newbies doing their best to survive. Some had imballanced squads. Some had injury troubles. One was Wigan.
Please can these cunts be relegated next year?
As for me I'm happy we survived another turmoil of a year in the history of supporting this extraordinary club.
Long may it continue. |
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i-Ron
2:13 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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Keep going David L, i was enjoying that |
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David L
2:13 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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Well said i-ron !!! |
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David L
2:12 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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I get fed up hearing that Zola operated ''under very difficult circumstances''. Lets not forget that it was Zola who decided
1. to play with no width
2. not to replace neill (the money was there at the time for a RB)
3.persevered with the hapless Spector, despite there being a reasonable alternative
4. to play the game at a snails pace, as they do in fucking Italy
5. being friends with all the players rather than a fucking manager
6. allowed Collins to be sold, to be replaced with Diamanti
7. tactically inept
8. has allowed clarke to get away with doing fuck all for a whole season
9. nani - enough said
10. in charge of a disastrous pre season
11. saying that every game is ''massive'' - this started with Fulham home
12. constantly surprised at why other teams start games fast
13. Not vocal enough
fuck it I've had enough. Please feel free to add more. |
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Duke of Devonshire
2:11 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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I can't be bothered to come up with my own comments so basically I agree with what NCHammer has said on here. |
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i-Ron
2:08 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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talk to the BOARD* |
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i-Ron
2:08 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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What went wrong?
*Zola said he was going to improve the attacking line up over the summer....but he didn't, he allowed Bellamy, Tristan, Di Michele, Savio and Sears to leave...and replaced them all with Franco who only started playing around October.
*Weakened the defence allowing 2 first team players to leave without any replacements....
*He never bought any cover in at left back, meaning Spector played nearly a full season.
*He ignored the fact we had no wingers available and opted to sign two attacking central midfielders.
*should have had the bollox to talk to them and take action on all of the above, sacrificing big earners for as much as possible instead of ignoring the situation and eventually causing unrest in the playing staff
*As soon as the players lost confidence, Zola couldn't get them working again, we can't even beat 10 men as they look clueless
*The team overall lost completely lost, thanks to Zola |
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NCHammer
2:03 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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p - I agree. I do think we have players to build around. Green, Parker, Noble, Upson, Tomkins, Cole. That's half the team. I wouldn't mind us selling anyone else (and to be honest, I wouldn't be overly bothered if Cole and Upson left at the right price). That should give us funds to strengthen around them and be a much more competitive team next year.
We have to bring in players with pace though. Especially in those wide positions and up front..... |
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rue de vert
2:03 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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Good article on the whole. Balance and rational. |
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Dazzler1985
2:02 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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Apparently it's not the managers fault if players don't perform. Even if he continually insists on picking those players and also states it's not his job to motivate them, they do that themselves with their performances or they get replaced. |
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Bonza
2:00 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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Alex, you are again the voice of reason with that balanced assessment.
Problems were:
Loss of Neill and Collins + injury to IIlunga
Inconsistency in selection in midfield due to injuries and form (we played well last year with Behrami, Noble, Parker, Collison two of whom missed large parts of this season
No pace
Zola's position should be 50/50. We didn't do that well but had very difficult circumstances.
The list of potential replacements isn't that appealing either.
Whoever is manager the priority has to be to get pace into the team. |
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CARTERS
2:00 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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ALEX,
I have enjoyed your post but with two reservations.
point one.
faubert,bless him, is and never will be a right full back.his defensive frailties let him down.
stick him at right wing no problem but don't let us get carried away that we have solved that problem.we need a top quality right back up and most on here have said this for the last twelve months when Neill was looking to leave.
point two.
zola did not sort out the left back problem when Ilunga got injured.
FFS everyone on here agrees spector should be playing for scunthorpe not WHU.
I was a Zola fan not anymore.
the trash served up on sunday was embarrasing as a lifelong supporter the WEST HAM way is football at its purest.
Just where did he buy kovacs at marks & sparks?
A good clear out of all this useless dross is imperative if we are to sustain mid table mediocrity.
sunderland spent 14m on Bent.
we buy mcCarthy for 2.5m and he plays 30minutes in three months.Ilan / mido should never don a WH shirt again.
give the kids a go.
Really can they do any worse.
and you know what on sunday it will be the same old ,same old, same old.
being a WH supporter this season has been embarrasing.
WELL DONE TO ALL THOSE SUPPORTERS WHO WENT TO EVERY GAME IN THE UK.YOU ARE AND HAVE BEEN FANTASTIC. |
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Steve P
1:58 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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We way short of being good enough, and unless there is a wholesale clear out, my feeling is we are nailed on to go down next season. |
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NCHammer
1:56 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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I think we make too many excuses for the management and players.
We simply weren't good enough for large parts of the season.
We had some money to spend but invested poorly and didn't strengthen the positions that most recognised needed to be strengthened. That meant we were slow and predictable on the field. We didn't have a manager that was capable of motivating the players week in and week out. We lacked confidence and looked lost when going a goal down. |
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ooooh Morley Morley
1:54 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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1. They couldn't sack Zola even if they wanted to.
2. They said they aren't in the habit of sacking managers.
3. If they were so in tune with what the fans wanted why the fuck did they bring out those happy clappers? |
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casual hammer
1:54 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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Losing Collins and Neill out of that back 4 was always going to lead to a struggle.
My bug bear with Zola is him playing wrong people in wrong positions, Spector isn`t a left back, yet he still plays there as it gets to a situation where the crowd gets on his case and his confidence goes. What has happened to Daprela FFS?
Diamanti, Zola doesn`t seem to have found a settled place for him, Noble wide left, indecision on our front two. I could go on.
Draw a line under this season, say ta ta to GFZ and go again in August.. |
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Dazzler1985
1:53 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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In short:
*Financial difficulties.
*Injuries happen (yet ours are due continual bad luck).
*Couldn't have done any worse and not have been relegated.
*Football's a results business.
*Zola's job rightfully hangs in the balance.
*Futue could be bright. |
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Mr Polite
1:51 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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Alex
Don't forget they are fans themselves an so I think having the fans onside will have a huge influence on they decisions. |
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southlondonhammer
1:50 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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It was the fixture lists fault............
was'nt it? |
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NCHammer
1:48 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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AI - Apparently Carlton Cole has..... |
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alex x
1:46 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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Mr Polite 1:35 Tue May 4
The backing Zola got even when it was clear he was well out of his depth and was not learning from his mistakes was/is nothing short of embarrassing and I believe a massive factor in G&S keeping him so as not to antagonise the fans so soon after taking over.
**************************************************Mr P,
I find it had to believe that two hard nosed businessmen would be influence by terrace chants. |
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Sven Roeder
1:45 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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"Yes Fulham are doing a brilliant job on little resources, but give them 10 injuries in the early part of next season and we'll see how they cope with that!"
They had a trial run for that eventuality on Sunday with the team they put out.
Mostly reserve players but with a definable shape and purpose and they won. |
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charleyfarley
1:42 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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I blame the easy run in we had, made our players complacent. |
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WhamZam
1:41 Tue May 4
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Re: What Went Wrong? A West Ham Post-mortem |
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A fair and balanced report, but I feel you left out one important issue: The awful transfer business done in the summer. I realise that there were financial constraints, but none of the players brought in have improved us and many of us could see just how unbalanced our squad was at the start of the season. So why couldn`t Zola and his fat lawyer mate see this? |
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