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Vinny's Stoke Report
Vinny 11:08 Tue Nov 20
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West Ham United 1 Stoke City 1
A second half equaliser from Joey O’Brien gave West Ham a share of the spoils in a closely fought encounter against Stoke City at Upton Park.
There are a number of things that we can take away from this game but that old cliché about there not being an easy game in the Premiership was never so prominent after this 1-1 against Stoke.
After beating Newcastle last week and with the prospect of moving into 5th place I think West Ham fans can be forgiven for getting a little ahead of themselves with regards to how easy getting three points from Stoke would be.
Not that I am too critical of these expectations as it is nice to see a bit more of an optimistic outlook when West Ham are being talked about and ever so slowly the negativity of the last few years is being eroded away and the supporters are beginning to believe in this set of players.
Stoke came with a game plan and in the first half it worked perfectly as we looked stale and without another way to break them down. With Jarvis and Benayoun missing there was a lack of creativity in the midfield but in the second half a few players stepped up their game such as Gary O’Neil who I thought had a good game.
The way we came out of the blocks in the second half was very pleasing and we had two chances in those opening few minutes in which one of them was converted by an unlikely source.
Whilst Stoke were always a threat on the break there is no doubt that we dominated the second half and as that final whistle blew it was West Ham who felt they should have won the game and if we had some effective firepower up front I believe we would have.
There will be some who feel this was a poor result but as I keep pointing out we have come so far in such a short space of time and are improving all the time. We knew it was going to be tough this season and although I always felt we could compete with most of the league it would still be hard work to get results home or away against anyone.
As long as we are looking dangerous and attacking other teams then I will be content and much like the Sunderland game a few weeks back we finished the game as the better side and certainly never deserved to lose.
We may have a difficult run of games to come but I do not believe we will lose them all and if you look at the last three games, five points from those is a decent return and I know many didn’t think we would even get that.
I do feel that we were unlucky that Vaz Te, Jarvis and Benayoun were all out injured and that Matthew Taylor was only coming back to fitness because these are all of our wide options. Without these options we are going to look one dimensional as we go through the middle and usually go long to Andy Carroll.
The difference in the second half was that the full backs were both pushing forward which although left us exposed to the counter attack, gave us further options down the flanks and this caused Stoke some problems.
The Team
Two changes were made to the side who went to St James’ Park last weekend and came away with a victory.
The two changes were in midfield with right winger Yossi Benayoun out injured and replaced by Gary O’Neil.
It was a similar story on the left wing as Matt Jarvis was out and was replaced by Modibo Maiga who was
making his first ever Premiership start.
In the Stoke City squad there was a former Hammer of the Year and former West Ham captain.
Winger Matthew Etherington started on the left for the visitors. He played 177 times for the club scoring 18 goals between 2003 and 2009. He won the Hammer of the Year award of his performances in the 2003/04 season.
On the bench for Stoke was Matthew Upson who played 146 times for West Ham between 2007 and 2011 scoring 4 goals.
The referee was 49 year old Chris Foy from Lancashire. This was the second time Foy had taken charge of a West Ham game this season having been the man in the middle away at Norwich City.
First Half
Although Stoke did not take much of an allocation the ground was still packed and it was announced that it was another sell out which was our fourth in a row.
There was no doubting that we struggled in the first half and anyone who had to witness our display would have been less than impressed.
Whilst we were never constantly on the back foot it was the away side who were looking the better side and we were failing to hold on to possession for any meaningful amount of time.
Still it was still a surprise when Stoke took the lead with 13 minutes on the clock.
It came from a well worked corner as Whelan played a low ball to the feet of Jonathan Walters who smashed his shot past Jaaskelainen to put the Potters 1-0 up.
Clearly this was a training ground move they had been working on and they executed it with perfection and although we were caught cold by the pass from the corner you have to give credit to Walters for his finish which was excellent.
It took us until the 23rd minute to muster up what you would consider a decent move as Noble got the ball out to O’Neil who put a good cross into the area for Carroll to win the header but his effort at goal had no power and the Stoke keeper Begovic saved easily.
Around this time it became clear that the Stoke keeper was going to be one of those who liked to waste time which after only around 25 minutes did seem a little excessive but he would continue to time waste throughout the game and although the West Ham fans made their disapproval known, the referee never booked him at any point.
Another corner caused us problems as centre half Robert Huth won a header which was turned away by Jaaskelainen.
Our first meaningful effort on goal came after a neat interchange between O’Neil and Nolan which saw the latter hit a shot which Begovic turned away for a corner.
The job Stoke were doing on Andy Carroll appeared rather cynical but the referee wanted to hear none of it and Sam Allardyce was clearly livid when Carroll was not awarded a free kick for what looked like the most blatant push of all time.
Mark Noble went into the referee’s book for a bit of a clumsy tackle on Walters. This was a strange decision by the referee as there were worse fouls throughout the rest of the game which never saw yellow and in fact this was the only booking in the game.
Stoke came so close to extending their lead as the ball was played inside to N’Zonzi who at 25 yards out hit a wonderful shot which beat the keeper but crashed off the crossbar.
Only two minutes of injury time was awarded at the end of the half which was ridiculous for a few reasons. Stoke had already made a sub which I had thought meant at least 30 seconds. With Nolan having gone down with injury as well as a Stoke player and also the goal there should have been at least four minutes. More strange officiating from Chris Foy.
Second Half
Whenever you are losing at half time you hope that the team will come out all guns blazing at the start of the half and this is exactly what we did.
Just a minute had gone and we should have been on level terms as Diame cleverly released McCartney down the left and his cross found Kevin Nolan but his finish was saved by Begovic when it really should have been a goal and for me this was a bad miss.
Not to be put off by that chance that went begging, West Ham went at Stoke again at with three minutes of the second half played the equaliser was found.
The source of the goal was not one you would expect but it was fitting given his recent form that he would score his first ever Premiership goal.
The player I am talking about of course is Joey O’Brien who met a Gary O’Neil cross with a finish from around 10 yards out. I couldn’t work out who had scored the goal initially as the position O’Brien had taken up seemed an odd one for a right back to be in but he finished well and we were back in this game.
The next 10-15 minutes was a bombardment of the Stoke area and looking back this was probably the key time in the game as they were on the back foot and we had the ascendency.
Tomkins managed to keep the ball in and won a corner which Noble took but it was flat and did not beat the first man which was going to be a trait of our corner kicks with Noble the main culprit.
Saying that the next corner Noble took was a better one which Carroll won and Maiga saw his shot blocked on the line and the clearance went only as far as O’Neil who smashed the ball towards goal before Carroll was penalised for a foul.
It was all very frantic and the noise level had risen inside the Boleyn.
A deep cross from Maiga saw the ball flicked on to O’Neil who saw his shot come off Huth and away for another corner as our dominance continued.
Stoke reacted with around 30 minutes remaining with Glen Whelan coming off to be replaced by former Tottenham midfielder Wilson Palacios.
Moments later we attempted a clever corner of our own in which Gary O’Neil came very close to scoring as a short corner saw Diame play the ball back to O’Neil who took a first time curling shot at goal which had the keeper beaten but whistled just past the post.
Some really good football was being played with Nolan and Maiga linking up to create a good move which ended in a ball into the area for Carroll being turned away for a corner.
With 76 minutes gone Guy Demel came on for Joey O’Brien although I am not sure why.
We had to be careful of Stoke on the break and there were a couple of heart in mouth moments when the offside flag saved us.
With five minutes remaining Allardyce took off both Carroll and Maiga with Cole and Taylor coming on in their place.
Taylor had a chance to take a corner after we had seen so many poor ones but even he struggled to get his effort past the first man.
There was to be no last great chance and we had to settle for a point which whilst not exactly what we wanted or perhaps had expected still is a decent point and as long as we are remaining competitive and not losing game we will be fine.
Player Reviews
Jussi Jaaskelainen
Will have been disappointed in how the goal came about but there was little he could do with the smart finish. Overall he didn’t really have many saves to make. 6
Joey O’Brien
I said last week that I was impressed with him and he is starting to produce some good displays which has seen him stake a claim for that right back position even with Demel coming back to fitness. Took his goal well and was defensively solid. 7
James Tomkins
A comfortable display and put in a strong performance which like O’Brien does him no harm when trying to stake a claim in the starting eleven. 7
Winston Reid
Steady as ever and continues to be consistent with his performances. He is solid, rarely beaten and is reading the game well. 7
George McCartney
I thought he was excellent, especially in the second half where he did more work on the left wing in a few minutes than Maiga did in the entire game. 7
Mark Noble
With the Stoke midfielders swarming around him he found it difficult to find time on the ball and was often hurried into a pass he perhaps didn’t want to make. He couldn’t get on the ball enough to make anything really happen and his set pieces were largely poor. 6
Mohamed Diame
Like Noble he couldn’t find enough space to move into with Stoke doing an excellent job in preventing this. There were still moments when he drove forward as we have seen him do a few times this season but his final ball is still nowhere near good enough. 6
Kevin Nolan
His performances are usually very similar in that he will always be involved and prominent when we are attacking. There was one point in the second half that he came off to change his boot and we literally did not know what to do with the ball in a very odd moment in the game. Nolan should have scored in the second half and had little impact in those last 20 minutes. 6
Modibo Maiga
He clearly is not a winger and playing him there will reap few rewards. Over the last few years I seem to have talked about playing strikers on the wing far too much. 6
Gary O’Neil
Whilst this may be a little controversial, I thought he was our best player. In the second half O’Neil really stepped up his game and whilst he did surrender possession on occasion he was very forward thinking and was unlucky not to score with a clever curling effort. He also got an assist for the goal. I was pleasantly surprised by this performance. 7
Andy Carroll
Carroll had a tough game and was manhandled by the Stoke defenders without much protection from the referee. I am willing him to score that first goal as we really need a striker scoring. As I have already seen mentioned, if this performance had been produced by Carlton Cole the reaction would be much different. Carroll has gone another game without scoring and according to most on here a striker should be judged on goals. Unless he is Andy Carroll of course. 5
Subs Used
Guy Demel (on for O’Brien 77 mins)
Unless O’Brien had picked up a knock I didn’t really understand this like for like substitution. Nevertheless Demel although looking a bit rusty was tidy in his time on the pitch.
Matthew Taylor (on for Maiga 86 mins)
Should have been on at least ten minutes earlier as his delivery from the left would have been an asset.
Carlton Cole (on for Carroll 86 mins)
Should have only come on to play alongside Carroll in those final few minutes. He came on, committed lots of fouls and that was about it.
Subs Not Used: Spiegel, Hall, Collins, Spence
Goals: WHU: O’Brien (48), SC: Walters (13)
Bookings: WHU: Noble
Man Of The Match: Gary O’Neil
Stoke City:Begovic, Cameron, Huth, Shawcross, Wilkinson, Whelan, N'Zonzi, Adam, Etherington, Crouch, Walters
Subs: Sorensen, Palacios, Jones, Upson, Kightly, Shotton, Jerome
Referee: Chris Foy, 5
Attendance: 35, 005
Overall
I can understand some disappointment after this result as we had a chance to go 5th and really take this season to a new height.
The problem was our lack of a first half performance which saw us play catch up and then that period after we equalised we needed to be more ruthless in front of goal.
We are playing with a player up front who is desperately out of goalscoring form and I will be honest, I am surprised that Andy Carroll has not scored for us yet given how devastating he was in that debut against Fulham.
I’ve kept saying the goals will come and I hope they do but I will admit I am starting to have my concerns about him and his ability to score consistently. His hold up play and bringing other people into the game is all very well but save that argument for Emile Heskey
Next Game – Tottenham Hotspur (a) Sunday 25th November, 3pm Kick Off.
The start of three very difficult games sees us travel to White Hart Lane for a Derby game against mis-firing Spurs. If there was ever a game for Andy Carroll to score his first goal for the club it was this one.
Spurs are not as good as people think they are and we can go there and get a result.
It is still difficult to complain about our start to the season and if we can get some points out of the next three games we will have even more cause for optimism.
The View From Allardyce
"It was a tough first half for us and their main threat was set plays,"
"They build up in open play and once they get a few set plays around your box they are very dangerous. Unexpectedly though the goal was from John Walters rather than a header from one of their taller players. It was a great move from them and a great finish.
"We were a little disappointed at half time that we were getting in to the final third but our balls into their box were not good enough. We were doing it from the wrong areas rather than the wide positions pushed out towards the touchline.
"We pushed our full-backs on in the second half and told them to get forward and we started to change play from left to right and right to left rather than just down the middle. We wanted to get the ball behind their defence and right from kick-off in the second half, Kevin Nolan should have scored and then Joey O'Brien did score before we had several other chances to get that winner.
"We worked a brilliant corner ourselves and Gary O'Neil hit it just wide, their keeper made some good saves and there were some scrambles in the box.
"Sadly we couldn't find the ultimate winner that we deserved on the second-half performance. We've got 19 points from 12 games with nearly a third of the season gone.
"We can say it's a really good start - if you're five or six games in and you're fifth of six in the league that can happen, but when you're 12 games in and you're seventh in the league then you know it's a good start."
"I was particularly pleased with the squad as we didn't have Matt Jarvis, Yossi Benayoun, Alou Diarra, Ricardo Vaz Te or Jack Collison. There are a lot of players missing but we still put a performance together like we did in the second half and I thought the crowd went home a little disappointed that we didn't win it on the way we played in the second half."
[On O'Brien] "This lad was a brilliant player at 19 in the Premier League at Bolton and then got lost in the wilderness of injuries and got forgotten about by everyone. I knew the potential so what he needed was for someone to show some belief in him again.
"Slowly but surely he's made his way forward and has proven that he's over his injuries that caused him all those problems. He's had a few niggles here and there but this season he has come on and we've seen the best of him and long may that last."
"We go to Tottenham full of confidence and hope to get some of the injured players back. We'll need to be as good if not even better than we were in our away wins at Queens Park Rangers and Newcastle as an attacking force.
"We've got to rely on our superb defensive qualities and then we've got to try to work on the areas that Tottenham leave exposed, particularly when we get got hold of the ball. If we can marry those two together then hopefully we can give a performance similar to our recent ones and try to get a result.
"We'll have to be on top of our game, as we had to be against Stoke. We played our top game in the second half and deserved to beat them but couldn't quite do it."
Season 2011/12 Scorers
Kevin Nolan 5 (5 League)
Modibo Maiga 3 (1 League, 2 Cup)
Mark Noble 2 (2 League)
Mohamed Diame 1 (1 League)
Matt Jarvis 1 (1 League)
Matt Taylor 1 (1 League)
Winston Reid 1 (1 League)
Ricardo Vaz Te 1 (1 League)
Joey O'Brien 1 (1 League)
Nicky Maynard 1 (1 Cup)
Email: vinnywhufc@hotmail.com
Twitter: @vinnywhufc
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
stapes
12:12 Thu Nov 22
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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Cheers Vinny
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OverLandandSea
11:04 Wed Nov 21
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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I can VIVIDLY recalling when McCartney casually kicked the ball out for a corner when he could have put it out for a throw "Why the fuck did you do that!?"
The irony of him being the fall guy in the corner which followed was not missed by me even if Neville was too busy creaming himself over something which could have been avoided.
Think you fucker.
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Monk~koknee
8:47 Wed Nov 21
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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West Ham - Stoke stat attack.
Apparently, George was the most accurate attacking passer on the pitch.
http://www.eplindex.com/22043/west-ham-united-11-stoke-city-tactical-statistical-review.html
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Bud Fox
8:21 Wed Nov 21
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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Not sure if anyone's posted this up already but I happened upon this little gem of a match report on thisisstaffordshire.co.uk...
Stoke City bursting bubbles at Upton Park
Credit should be given where credit is due and as far as Stoke City are concerned they deserved lots of it for their inspirational performance at improving West Ham United last night (especially in the first half).
Having to rub one's eyes wondering if Stoke's attacking play was down to the dodgy stream. It was almost a revelation to see that the Potters were advancing forward with some fluidity which although fractured at times; was still a delight to watch.
The move that produced the corner that produced the goal was especially impressive with Adam and Nzonzi both outstanding in midfield.
The one criticism came with the substitution of Shotton for Wilkinson (who I maintain is polishing up nicely) whereas the recycled long throw (Shotton instead of Delap) was hopefully hurled in at inopportune times.
It seemed almost poetic justice then that every time the long throw was dispatched; promising attacks seemed to break down almost as a penance for even contemplating it.
The pony-tailed Andy Carroll for the Hammers was also worth a mention; duly because of his negative theatrics every time he came into contact with a Stoke player.
Shawcross take note: A move from your home club at your peak; does not always guarantee future success.
Attendance: 35, 005
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Kirk st Moritz
11:32 Tue Nov 20
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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George McCartney
I thought he was excellent
rofl
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Hammer and Pickle
11:23 Tue Nov 20
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I like Carroll, but we need to be able to do without him.
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GreenStreetPlayer
11:19 Tue Nov 20
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Thought Maiga's display was a positive and with some good interchanges out on the left.
While you need to mix play up a bit, there were far too many balls pumped into their box and they could have defended those all night. Anyone running at them though was a different kettle of fish and wished we could have tried those channels more as we had more success.
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Ozziehammer
11:00 Tue Nov 20
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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Similar games over the years and that one goal would have killed us off but we are a different side now with some real guts which is great to see. The long ball was played a bit but it is really good to see some bloody good football in between. I enjoyed the game and thought we played better in the first half than the comments that I had read before watching the replay Tuesday night Oz time indicated. Second half clearly deserved the winner but that's how it goes.
We will need to watch out for Bale at Spurs because we looked the most vulnerable against Stoke when their midfielders ran at us with the ball and but for a couple of dubious offsides it could have been a different story. If we can contain his runs I think we are a chance at a point.
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jimbo2.
10:08 Tue Nov 20
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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I thought that Maiga had a good game and will be a real asset to us. Nolan and Noble played well, as did our four defenders. Considering we were missing 4 or 5 players and virtually all our wide men, we played fine!
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inconsistant fc
9:58 Tue Nov 20
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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Cole is actually pretty useful defensively from corners etc so you can't level that one at him.
As it happens, I think they both are similar players but Carroll is just better at it than Cole is. Neither of them score enough goals and haven't done so throughout their careers so far.
Carroll would be unplayable with a fox-in-the-box Defoe-type player up top with him.
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inconsistant fc
9:54 Tue Nov 20
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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13 Brentford Rd 4:13 Tue Nov 20
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,
9:38 Tue Nov 20
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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The longer Carroll goes without scoring the more Cole's reputation grows.
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62Hammer
9:37 Tue Nov 20
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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I enjoyed the second half so much I couldn't get too disappointed about two dropped home points. I thought that O'Neill and Maiga, so ineffective in the first half, improved massively in the second. And Nolan, whom I thought was a waste of time this time last year, was MOM. I can see now what he brings to the side.
I agree with David L: Andy Carroll brings far more to the team in almost every way than CFC, with or without goals (but preferably with, and soon).
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David L
9:30 Tue Nov 20
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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Still amazes me Vinny when you compare Cole and Carroll, as if they are very similar players.They're not, and carroll's contribution to the team - at both ends - is simply in a different class. Sure, he's not scored yet, but so what. He is immense. We saw the diffence when old numbnuts Cole came on, immediately gave away a foul by elbowing a defender in the neck (cue eyes rolled to the sky and why me look on face - as if it's the first time it's happened). chuck in a couple of stupid offsides and there we have Cole's brief ''performance'' in a nutshell.
Useless useless fuckwit of a player.
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terry-h
9:27 Tue Nov 20
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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Cheers Vinny.
I feel even if Carroll stays on after January,we have to strengthen up front.
A player I like a lot is Glenn Murray,but I doubt Palace will consider selling him being in the position they are in.
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Sir Alf
9:26 Tue Nov 20
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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Another game we would not have come back from very often in the past (well last 10 or so seasons) and overall we shaded it in terms of chances but can not be too upset given they were close to being 2 up in a first half they dominated.
As always a good report Vinny. I would disagree (opinions :-)) on Maiga. Sure he is not a winger but he displayed some good qualities in terms of holding onto the ball with strength and above all else, great little interplays and passes in and around the box. He has a good awareness and intelligence as a footballer allied to good technique (ok, we will not talk about "that" shot). Stoke struggled with him and Momo down that left flank all game.
I think the Anelka talk is easy to understand too. Not sure he aint past it but we definitely need a player who can finish. Carroll is not a goal scorer in the traditional sense but provides so much else even on a underpar night by occupying others and holding it up etc...
Anyway, need to go back to being solid and uncompromising this Sat against the North London pretenders.
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percyd
9:15 Tue Nov 20
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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Gotta get this corner taking problem sorted out.
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Alex Bunbury
9:01 Tue Nov 20
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I like O'Neil but other than the assist and shot in the second half I can't remember too much from him other than giving the ball away a couple of times. What I like about him though is that he works very hard and never hides.
Ideally Carroll needs to get some goals but it's clearly not the only thing a centre forward needs to contribute. You could see last night how much focus Stoke put on snuffing him out and how that in turn creates space for other players, most particularly Nolan.
I actually thought we did well last night but just lacked a bit of creativity, which I suppose is understandable considering that Jarvis, Benayoun and Vaz Te are currently out.
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13 Brentford Rd
4:13 Tue Nov 20
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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Amazing the slagging Nolan got on here last season!
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Gazza_AZ
4:12 Tue Nov 20
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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Good report Vinny - I was watching with a Spanish commentary (and no I dont speak Spanish) but the pace of the game in the second half was tremendous, twice as much action as any Barcelona game - and the one-touch passing up both flanks impressed me. Grauniad readers still insist its hoofball - but not on what I saw yesterday.
Many candidates for MOTM - for me Nolan for inspiration, and effort - a couple of times he chased down a Stoke defender and gained possession of the ball - a great leader and definitely upped the play of the entire team.
On Carroll - he is a great target man and his lay-offs and positional play are way better than CFC - but I agree he needs to start scoring goals - comparisons to CFC in all categories are unfounded - except his inability to Score Goals. He seemed quite upset when he was substituted - but given the battering he was taking - I think it was a good move. Replacing JOB with Demel was a bit mystifying - but maybe Sam just wants to get Demel some match experience so that he can move JOB to the midfield to up the workrate.
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inconsistant fc
4:04 Tue Nov 20
Re: Vinny's Stoke Report
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"This is not about looking at his own passing or chance taking but what he gave as captain. Perhaps it helps to have experienced eyes, believe me without Nolan that game was lost. "
That is a good point, actually. It is that sort of thing that Nolan brings as a skipper. He is talking to players a lot, plus he gets in the refs face and sticks up for his team mates.
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