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Finnish Ironing 11:15 Sun Mar 25
Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

There isn't one, is there?

We're doomed!

DOOOOOMED!!!

sand iron 8:39 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

And waiting for our new manager, with he's new brand of football to win us promotion at the first attempt, there were some big expectations from macari, a young up & coming manager bringing us a new brand of successful football.

However 2 months into the season it was plain to see the fans weren't taking to it (or him) it wasn't the west ham way of course, macari's off field problems aside he was never going to see out that season anyway. The rest of course is history.

Bring us forward to present, iin the last 10 or so years the different boards have managed to appoint 3-4 managers that have either been disasters or just wasn't the right men to play the 'west ham way' (curbishley springs to mind & he was a former employee!)

So after all the wrong appointments in recent years, why did the board take the gamble on fat Sam?? They must of realised if things weren't going accordingly the fans wouldn't take long to turn? They had a long time to get this one right, it wasn't like he was the only man for the job.

I can't help casting my mind back to the Lou macari era, is history repeating itself ?

Sorry about the break, pushed the post button by mistake then had to attend to my new born baby girl, some things are more important then football ! :-)

FrancoisVanDerElst 8:26 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

Sir Alf 7:59 Sun Mar 25

hard to disagree with such an eloquent post

you are probably correct that we take offence to his comments etc as we are proud of the 'West Ham way' its the one thing that sets us apart from all other clubs
I'm sure we would all be ecstatic if we go up albeit automatically or via the playoffs
but the way we are going about it , i fear we may lose our identity in the process
would i choose success over our clubs footballing beliefs?
long term...i'm not sure i would
I LOVE West Ham for what we stand for. once that goes i'm not sure we could ever get it back

Sir Alf 8:21 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

sand iron 8:11 Sun Mar 25

Yeah we never saw that through. Macari got involved with off field scandals and that was the end of that. Not sure how long he was with us but it was not a full season if I recall correctly.

History about to repeat itself perhaps. I suppose Pardew took us to Wembley and got us up so for the younger fan is still an attractive proposition and he did seem to have a rapport with us until the inevitable off field scandals and dressing room unrest took hold again.

I am at a loss. I would like to see Allardyce given a little more time than 8 months. I know his reputation was largely built at Bolton but it was over many seasons and he did improve them, even the football got better and he did improve both Blackburn and teh BarCodes in his short time there. Newcastle were in the bottom 3 and he left them in the top 10.

I think I know the way this is going and more uncertainty, bleak financial outlook etc... so like I say, I hope he sees us over the line and gets another season.

The next 6 weeks will the rollercoaster ride we seem to have every 2 seasons. Hope we can defy the critics in the media and even some of our own fans and get back to the top flight and hopefully stay on course with the financial recovery that ultimately is the most important thing over the short term.

sand iron 8:11 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

Sir alf 6-58

Your post makes a lot of sense, west ham as a club needs a bit of continuanity on the managerial & coaching front. We've seen too many comings & goings of managers, back room teams etc over the last 10-12 years.

It was never the west ham way to change managers too often, there was a time when every manager had a decent stint, got a fare crack of the whip so to speak.

However, way back in the day the club nearly always managed to appoint the right man for the west ham job, most managers were former employees of the club & were already installed in the football traditions of the club, they knew how the punters & too a certain extent the media wanted the team to play.

Way back when the club sacked the great John lyall they arguably took their biggest gamble so far in appointing Lou macari as the next manager, he was a outsider to the fans, never having had any association with the club in the past, but more then that, he was an advocate for what was then a new brand of football, 'route one' !

The board back then jumped on the direct football approach bandwagon (as did a few other clubs) & decided to ditch it's cultured footballing roots & go with a manager that set he's sides out to play the 'wimbledon' way.

Back then it was seen by many as the way to go, (England Graham Taylor etc) arsenal were having succsess with it under George Graham. So there we were stuck in the old 2nd division with Lou macari

Norflundon 8:05 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

Alf

That's a pretty fair post but I will take issue with one thing
You say lambert and tigers have only had success at one club but couldn't you say the same about bfs I'm not really sure what he did before he got to Bolton but he certainly hasn't succeeded at any club since

Who could we get instead well I'm not sure as I don't follow the fortunes of any other clubs but Swansea and Norwich are both much smaller clubs than us especially Swansea and if Rodgers has ambition then I don't see why we couldn't go for him although either him or lambert would only be realistic targets if we get promoted
Also there are plenty of young up and coming managers potent makay and Howe are three
Personally I'm lot easier to please than most on here I just want some decent football and if that brings promotion then all well and good but I also realise the owners have a different agenda and NEED the club to be promoted
Funnily enough and I'm not suggesting it happen by the way but Zola probably would of bend a good coach for this group of players young players that are waiting to be moulded rather than SAMs approach of this is our system and you'll fit into it wether it suits you or not I could imagine the likes of Maynard baldock and Morrison hall and our other youngsters relishing playing under him but that's just a theory that can never be proved

For me personally I'd take anyone who wants to play a bit of football and I'd take them now as i think he's lost it and we look like we re on a downward spiral

mentor 8:01 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

Pseudonym 6:09 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

What do you want me to me to do lie? Mullins rather than Mascherano ffs.

Sir Alf 7:59 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

FrancoisVanDerElst 7:25 Sun Mar 25

Fair point. The vitriolic. anti Allardyce sentiments may well be a reaction to the recent articles blaming everyone else and not appearing to take any accountability more than results?. Human nature or at least football fans nature is to seize upon comments and feel "affronted". "insulted" etc... But it is probably, deep down, just as much about fans not getting what they want, when they want it and the onset of "anxiety" in recent weeks leading to emotional overreaction if they were completely honest about it. If we were in Southampton's position there would be few if any posts about the style of football and everyone would not be looking to be offended by comments BFS made in the Evening Standard and post match interviews. :)

Bragging rights about our position as football's academy and our infamous "moral victors" tag when we lost but played well is arguably being undermined now and that obviously affects a lot of people who used that as the perfect response (or defence) when competing/debating with fellow fans from more successful / neighbouring clubs. Personally, I am old and ulgly enough these days to not get offended by very much. When you know you aint nothing special but a decent geezer on the whole, with a decent family, there aint much that can get you upset when it comes to comments in the sports media by managers, fans and players about you as a fan. I have no sense of entitlement when it comes to West Ham, I just want to see something radically different to be tried and given time to work or fail. Some will Sam is failing, I dont think so yet after 8 months but thats opinions for you.

I have followed the club for 52 years and seen 6, maybe 7 years of success. Look at the stats since the 50s when we first got in the top flight. I think we need to get away from the traditions and try something different but I also know it wont happen overnight and will suffer from setbacks and require us to "keep our nerve". It seems to me I am in a small minority who is prepared to give a new manager time. Allardyce was given 2 seasons, not 1 to get us up although he and everyone else wanted and even claimed it would just the one. Our current position, although wobbly of late, is still pretty good based on where I thought we might be when we went through the trap door last season with a squad and set up that would have struggled in the Championship let alone the top flight.

I have yet to see a really credible alternative suggested but always keep an open mind. Martin Allen was my wild card suggestion before BFS was chosen but he seems to have imploded again :-( I thought of him because he may have tried something different although he would have been just as risky as PDC.

I dont know what to say anymore. Seems we could be in turmoil again in the Summer although I am hoping the Fat Controller scapes us across the line in 2nd spot somehow. :-(

Seamouse 7:40 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

All i know is that if the Anti Allardyce fuckwits get their way - we will end up having Steve Bruce or Alec Macleish managing us sooner than we dare to think .. or god forbid Gary Megson

better the devil you know

FrancoisVanDerElst 7:27 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

sorry not sure what happened there

FrancoisVanDerElst 7:26 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

ht explain) some of the tweets etc)

roltrader 7:26 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

Slim Sam ??

FrancoisVanDerElst 7:25 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

Good post Sir Alf......
But i would also say that all those managers would willing to adapt if things were going less well....maybe thats why they have improved from their previous jobs?
And no managerial appointment can guarantee success , but some would certainley give the correct impression to the supporters
I feel SA is causing a divide between the team and the fans (mig

Sir Alf 6:58 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

A question I have also been asking since the anti Allardyce posts started which was from day one for many :)

I have not read through the 100 posts on this thread but a brief scan seems to suggest Lambert or PDC?

The concensus being that they would have done better with the same resources as BFS and starting from the same position (post relegation, lots of comings and goings). Lambert has achieved success with Norwich in the last 2 seasons but before that with Colchester, Wycombe and Livingstone (briefly) he had an reasonable record but not outstanding.

He has Norwich playing good football and while they have done well this season, you have to remember they are riding on the momentum of last season's promotion. Next season will be the bigger test when teams understand how they play, who the danger men are etc... Same applies to Swansea and Brendan Rogers who also had an above average but not outstanding record at Reading and Watford.

So even if the above 2 could be tempted, they are still relatively inexperienced and have only achieved success at 1 club on limited resources and lower expectations. Both have set their teams up to play good football and I think that is the reason many see them as the type of manager they want. Will they bring or have brought more success than BFS? I would say its highly debateable and next season will be their real test.

So then there is PDC. He has achieved success quickly although his affliation with West Ham, cult status, passion etc... would bring a lift to morale. But at this point he is inexperienced to the extreme, has the "wild card" personaility that could unsettle the team spirit etc... when he tries to kick more high profile players up the arse as they leave the field after not doing what he wanted ?

In summary, the candidates suggested all come with risks and none of them has the track record of success (improving the league position, organisation etc...) at multiple clubs like BFS has. One or two of them may well go on to achieve better than Allardyce but no one knows.

So I think the poster who asked the question has not really got an answer to what he really needed to ask...

Which alternative manager is guaranteed to achieve better results than BFS, playing attractive football and would get us out of this Division should the worst happen?

For the record, and I am not a lover of teh Sam approach in a lot of ways, I think he was and still is the best we could hope for based on where we were, our finances and the challenge to get us out of the Championship in 2 seasons. We may end up with reduced crowds, although that has not quite happened yet, but I contend there aint much of an alternative and the dungaree wetting is simply because some fans want the good football and Premiership status asap and in the last 5 or 6 games they are seeing it possibly slip away. There aint 1 suggestion that is more credible IMO well not in terms of getting results and then we end up with that old debate about style versus results.

Be careful what you wish for is all I can say :-(

Billy Blagg 6:31 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

There wasn't one in the summer and there isn't one now. The only bloke I'd like to see here - apart from the obvious candidates who won't come - is Lambert.

Smiley Boy 6:29 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

We have had chances to get a winning manager several times, most recently, Mancini was in the running we got Zola, also last year Martin O Neil we get Sam, but what do we fans know, the people running the club think they know best, just look at Man City and Sunderland, now look where we are, says it all don't it..

Pseudonym 6:09 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

mentor 5:29 Sun Mar 25

Mug

ChesterRd 5:38 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

Pardew is the less bitter and more attacking version of Allardyce. You do need confidence to be successful but when it borders on megalomania it's never going to work out long term.

wrighty 5:34 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

Love the fact people get ridiculed on here for wanting pdc on the basis he hasn't managed in the prem. It's that rationale that will see us linked with Paul Jewell.

franksfat&slow&wank 5:32 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

I think pardews ego ends up getting the better of him ........a fella i know who worked at southampton said he was a fucking horrible ignorant wanker

mentor 5:29 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

I will never forgive Pardew for refusing to play Tevez and Mascherano..

LJC 5:25 Sun Mar 25
Re: Who's the alternative to Fat Sam?

I like pardew but I'm not convinced he is a good manager.

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