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Gentile 2:21 Thu Apr 5
What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

The last time I checked;

Honours (as West Ham Utd): European Cup Winners Cup winners 1965 (runners-up 1976); Intertoto Cup winners 1999; FA Cup winners 1964, 1975, 1980 (runners up 1923, 2006); Football League War Cup winners 1940; Charity Shield winners 1964 (shared); Second Division champions 1957-58, 1980-81 (runners up 1922-23, 1990-91); Championship Play Off winners 2005 (runners-up 2004); League Cup runners up 1966, 1981; International Soccer League winners 1963.

Someone should point out the above statistics to our mouthy arrogant manager, and quickly.

I disliked the bloke before he opened his Muttley shaped Northern mouth and now I feel nothing but disgust and embarrasment towards him and his comments.

Are we just going to sit back and take this? I hope to hear Paolos name ring out tomorrow night.

billybondsisafteryou 7:58 Fri Apr 6
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

BFS wants to know what we've ever won playing the WHW? Well in 80-81 we stormed the equivalent of the division we're in now, ie the division in which BFS will probably lead us to 3rd place. He should remember that season because he was in the Bolton team we beat at the Boleyn and drew away. Sorry but the bloke's a cunt.

WHU(Exeter) 3:57 Fri Apr 6
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

If we hadn't adopted a progressive and attacking style of football, the we would never have won a European trophy, in a game that's often mentioned as producing some of the best football in a European final, for it's time anyway...

Still, every club in the land have won one of them haven't they, Sam's got tons stashed in his attic.

Nicey 3:54 Fri Apr 6
Re: Seriously, cunts arguing about x not knowing y

What has the main critic and instigator of west ham fans questioning their own history and philosophy of football, Fat Sam Allardyce ever won playing 'The Allardyce Way'?

Just asking innit

LSD T 3:49 Fri Apr 6
Seriously, cunts arguing about x not knowing y

What this conclusively proves is thus.
West Ham United have been equally 'successful' playing either the West Ham way or by not doing so.
West Ham way=Creative passing football, pleasing on the eye.
Non West Ham way= Negative, stifling horrible to watch.

Let's put this in a modern setting(for the kidz to relate, ya get me), in the seasons we have NOT played the West Ham way (for example:- Ro@#er) we won fuck all, but the football was desperately awful and shite to watch, terrible atmosphere among the squad and crowd, relegation came and fucked us up the arse which the 'shite football' purists loved.
Playing the West Ham way (i.e. Zola) we won fuck all of note however we played some wonderful stuff let down as usual by the shit defending, great spirit among the squad and crowd, relegation averted which the 'shite football' purists hated.

nb, However, just because Zola never managed to achieve relegation for us (despite the best efforts of Gold & Sullivan to fuck shit up), does not mean we cannot achieve the accolade of relegation while playing good football.

QED - Whether we play nice football or not, there's little guarantee of success for either argument, past history of successes are based on an entirely different playing field and dynamic.
This argument is shit, I've now just become part of it, by some small way of recompense I shall be shooting myself in the face at the stroke of midnight, I suggest all parties here follow suit.

West Ham will always somehow contrive to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, regardless of how we're set up, either get used to it or like me, try drinking heavily on matchdays to cope.

BTW- Off the record I like watching nice football, but please don't quote me on that.

Iron Filings 2:26 Fri Apr 6
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

Billy Blagg 1:14 Fri Apr 6
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

You're right Billy, 4-5-1 that day, oh the irony of it all......

Lily Hammer 2:13 Fri Apr 6
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

Gentile

So you are encouraging Hammers to sing Paolo's name tonight?

Sick humour, if you really want what's best for our club.

I can dream of a nice story where Paolo eventually coms to be to Allaryce what Wenger was to Graham, but I wouldn't even dream of shouting for it now; Graham got more than nine months, and Arsenal were never in the financial shit we are in.

It's not the football I hate; I hate where we are, and it is NOT Allardyce's fault that we are where we are.

The Brown to Icelandic nightmare hurt us so badly, as it is tied up with the bank crash and the Tevez fine. We never had such financial pressure when we played our glory days, and we had time to build the teams over years, when occasionally we'd fin the right balance and combination to do some damage.

Nicey, to answer your question, playing his way, Allardyce has won a lot of respect from me for getting us this close to going up near the end of the season though he's only been here about 9 months.

There's no point in comparing us to Southampton or Swansea when they have had years to form theirs teams and options.

Sir Alf, good post. To be fair to the manager, he did sign Vaz Te in Jauary, so he obviously was aware of our need for pace that could go wide and take on defenders.

We should also remember we tried to get more interesting players at first, but predictably most clubs/agents/players took the piss with their asking prices.

Ramble ramble, but for fucks sake, don't dig out the manager at this time of his first season; our first season after a soul wrenching relegation, when we are still competeing for automatic promotion.

Billy Blagg 1:14 Fri Apr 6
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

..although amusingly - day to beat all days that it was - we didn't win the 1980 FA Cup playing the 'West Ham way'. It was because we didn't that Arsenal got so confused. O'Leary famously shouting to the touchline that he had 'no-one to mark' and 'what should he do?' Genius stroke by Johnny Lyall.

Steviedj 9:42 Fri Apr 6
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

Hammer and Pickle -
Yes - week after week: Johnny Lyall "Well it was a great advert for football" after our infamous 1-2 home results. 70% Possession, Irons 1 Oppos 2.

Of course we always wanted to win more often, but would be have settled for the long ball punt? I don't actually think we would. Remember the flowing moves of Brooking, Dev and Pikey, later the fluidity of the mid 80s side. Subsequent to that as much as I never rated Curbs at UP ( but did rate Pardew tho some didn't respect him) we have on balance played our way. No-one wants relegations and failed promotion attempts of course but you came and saw a decent game more often than not.

Someone put it fairly bluntly on WHO last week, writing we are 3rd in this league but he is" bored as f--k". Perhaps style does matter more than just the 'results line'.

Side of Ham 9:30 Fri Apr 6
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

Norflundon, ENGLISH football so that includes Chelsea, Man City etc has never been the prettiest it's been effective and relied on suffocating teams until they fuck up, it also in modern times has become fast and frenetic that relies heavily in the opposition to fuck up by being put under pressure with tackles and little time on the ball which is entertaining but football wise doesn't involve a lot of football brain power or technical ability. Therefore the West Ham way is a pretty version of English football, and in effect would be pissed on by the continental teams who have the same ethos except they are technically more talented are generally better at playing the game the way it should be.

I don't kid myself we are preveyors of the art of football, just disciples of the way it should be played ( basically we are like African missionary's of old) but the West Ham way is far from something to bleat about. There are only 2 ENGLISH players I have seen as cultured footballers and that is Devonshire & Brooking..

Nicey 8:10 Fri Apr 6
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

Has anyone answered what fat Sam has won playing 'the allardyce way'?

I'll tell you what, fuck all which makes his argument, criticism and arrogance totally unfounded and anyone being hoodwinked by his propaganda are just that, hoodwinked.

SDKFZ 222 12:54 Fri Apr 6
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

The 1980 final was perhaps THE greatest ever moment that I witnessed as a West Ham supporter. We were a division two team at the time and were totally off the promotion pace, against an all-conquering Arsenal team who were defending FA Cup holders and also appearing in the Cup-Winners Cup final just a few days later (they lost that one too.)

However, it was a gutsy, mainly defensive and counter-attacking performance and we played, perhaps for the very first time ever, a 4-5-1 formation with Cross as a lone striker up front. Lyall admitted at the time that his tactics were to leave their centre back pairing marking just one striker, Cross, and to have Pearson, our second striker, in a withdrawn role in midfield.

The tactics worked a treat and we won the cup, but it it was a ground out, hearts-in-mouth, backs-to-the-wall victory nonetheless.

mentor 11:18 Thu Apr 5
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

I.want.that.one is...bless

Hammer and Pickle 11:08 Thu Apr 5
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

Now we're being asked to trade our pride for results that are not even forthcoming.

We see the potential in the squad, call for it but are told we're talking bollocks and are deluded.

Are you ready to accept this?

mentor 11:00 Thu Apr 5
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

Football is a results game. To play a certain 'way' and still get results you have to have the players. The Cearns's and Brown unfortunately failed us in that respect

Hammer and Pickle 10:54 Thu Apr 5
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

Remember the days when "that was another wonderful flowing move from West Ham" was almost a commentator's cliché?

Perhaps you don't, but I do and it made me feel proud even when the results did not.

lord stan 10:48 Thu Apr 5
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

but the fact is..we were always regarded in them days as .'good to watch'...had a distinctive way of play...it didnt win us a great deal..but we had respect for sure.
now we are just a joke of a football club..with the'academy of football' logo.

mentor 10:16 Thu Apr 5
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE WEST HAM WAY. This is one of the issues that make BFC such a cunt.

lord stan 10:11 Thu Apr 5
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

its all bollocks this 'west ham way'.
i remember losing at stamford bridge in late 80's
the side included liam brady...we passed them to death,but got bullied out of it,and lost quite tamely in the end.
sound familiar??

Norflundon 10:02 Thu Apr 5
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

Side of Ham 8:48 Thu Apr 5
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?
Intertoto :-) SECOND Division Champions :-) What did we sing at Man U fans when they lost the league here in 93 and were runners up.... Fuck all your gonna win fuck all, but we've won third and 5th with the West Ham way:-)


You sound like you really want to support Chelsea or is it man city now
Or actually if your really happy with the fat one maybe stoke is more your bag.
The fact that we've won fuck all but still have massive support is kinda the point isn't it. It just shows that if the club sticks to its values we re not glory hunters we "just enjoy watching OUR team"

Alf

I've always considered Newcastle to be a pretty similar club to us the fans never liked him there and it was so blindly obvious that he would never be accepted here. I just think the board assumed that ok the fans will hate but if we back him with money he ll DEFINITLEY get promoted and we ll deal with the aftermath when we re not pouring dough into the club to keep it afloat in the championship.

One thing I'll never understand is both gran and bfs were such obvious bad choices for different reasons I'll never understand how G&S made them. Either they've been very lucky in their business lives or they are outstandingly bad judge of characters.

Sir Alf 9:29 Thu Apr 5
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

KingandPaynter 9:05 Thu Apr 5

I can see one of my questions has already been answered :)

He does not have a track record of winning with a team that is backed financially and is strongest in its league but an outstanding one of "not losing" too many games when managing teams with fewer resources or lesser quality.

We picked the wrong bloke based on those stats. Hindsight eh? Wonderful thing. Hope he proves me wrong in the next few weeks but aint too hopeful.

*** Sir Alf winces as he visualises Zigic heading the winner at the far post in the UP second leg play off semi final ***

Sir Alf 9:22 Thu Apr 5
Re: What have we ever won playing the West Ham way anyway?

The stats support the West Ham way until money (aka Sky) started to control everything.

The strategy that was tied to the philosophy, which I was also brought up on in the 60s, was that we develop youth products schooled in the right way, with great technique and first touch and good passing etc... and supplement that nucleus with some quality signings. Well the quality signings cost a lot more than we can afford now and have been able to afford for 20 odd years and when we do develop anyone that is a little bit special ourselves we, like most clubs, lose them to the big financial fish in the leagues or just clubs with more to spend than us.

That said, the ethos or philosophy of developing youth can be said to work for someone like Barcelona. But they have a few sheckles more than us :-(

Digressing for a moment as I always do....That is why BFS and the likes of Pullis at Stoke are in the game. They provide an ugly option for teams wanting to stay in the Prem. Problem for Allardyce is that his style is good for conceding few goals, that typically can keep you afloat in the top flight as a lesser club on a budget, but falls short when you are the team with the better budget and the one the other teams in the Division try to stop. I think the big physical players he likes are good when playing at home against the Prem elite when the team is almost set up as the away team. However, we are now the big fish and teams come to UP to stop us and pick us off on the counter. The big, one paced lumps don't provide the movement and width needed to stretch teams when the onus is on the home team to win. In other words, we don't have the midfield options for home games.. We have some players who if you put them in another team's midfield would look a lot better and be more effective but our midfield is like a vehicle made from 4 separate but same model and make vans. Don't matter what parts you use from which. It looks alright, nice and strong, shifts a decent amount of weight but is as mobile as a bowl of blamange with its big old diesel engine. Try racing that around a track against even a Smart car and it will struggle. Ok, crappy analogy but hopefully you get the drift.

Allardyce was right to strengthen the team using tall, more physical players and he also recognised that we were lacking firepower. The area he missed, and Grant and even Zola (after Behrami was crocked and lost interest) was the midfield. We had a lot of midfielders in the squad but not the blend or quality. He has improved some aspects without doubt but in the first half of the season Samuel did not recognise the need to bring more mobility in that area. Players to get wide and stretch teams and get to the byline with pace to cross. Yeah we had Faubert but he can't cross consistently with any quality. The mobility was also needed to help the central midfielder whether it is Noble, Lansbury or even Collison. They need someone that darts around, closing space, giving passing options. O'Neill is another one paced player and this season was returning from injury anyway. Collectively our lot are too static. Away no issue but at home where we have to open teams up we struggle to create chances let alone finish them. The Nolan situation is also a factor. I thought he played further up alongside Carroll during the Newcastle promotion season under Houghton. He gets goals but alongside 3 similarly slow midfielders, is often chasing shadows and not contributing enough when not in possession.

That is Allardyce's failure for me this season. He had the Jan window to address it but obviously did not even recognise the problem because he has been building teams and selecting formations to stay in a league not win it.

As I mentioned in a similar post earlier today, all this would be forgiveable if he could see it. The first step to any solution as they say. I still think we will be pushed to get a better manager just now but BFS has not helped himself with comments that, aside from an egocentric quality (which is a defence mechanism btw), seem to be proving that he is a "one trick pony" who is unable to learn any new tricks. In summary, good enough manager to keep you up but not to get a team promotion.

What's his record on that front btw? He led Bolton to promotion? Was it via play offs? Has he led any other teams to win a league or get them up?

Anyway, I think he will be here next season regardless and have not seen too many better alternatives just yet. I just hope somehow he proves me wrong and identifies the achilles heal of the team if, as expected, we are still in this Division next season but I won't be holding my breath :-(

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