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gph 11:04 Sun Nov 9
Intelligent life in the Universe
Watching Brian Cox's Space Time and Videotype.

Apparently, SETI, the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence, define an intelligent civilisation as one that does astronomy.

SETI is run by astronomers.

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

Russ of the BML 6:50 Mon Nov 17
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
Willtell 5:54 Mon Nov 17

Yes, and that's nothing to do with intelligence. It's to do with greed. More, more, more.

I only mentioned foresters as they are an obvious one. But, look at these giant corporations churning out millions of tonnes of Co2 each year. The governments know they do it but on thr whole turn a blind eye as they companies make them billions in corporation tax. Are they going to close them down or tell them to reduce productivity to sustainable levels? No.

And, god forbid, if a politician does stand up he is eventually silenced with a large pay out. Then he shuts up, retires, him and his family live a wonderful life and he says to himself "Me and my family are made. I won't rock the boat. Let someone else do it. Not my problem anymore".

It's that greed and desire to have it all and have an easy, luxurious life.

Big Dave 5:56 Mon Nov 17
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
I think that is the case for every human being on the planet.

Willtell 5:54 Mon Nov 17
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
Russ of the BML 2:17
That's true of everything in the modern world. No-one gives a shit about tomorrow because we all want it now. And that's not just foresters.

The UK debt being run up every day for years to come will never be repaid by current generations. Everyone wants someone else to pay for their benefits today be it the rich or future generations....

The Ghost of Braderz 5:37 Mon Nov 17
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
Oh and, Communism. Hth.

The Ghost of Braderz 5:15 Mon Nov 17
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
I'd say they'd have to be civilised enough to have created a portal whereby the discussing of inane subjects is instantly possible on a planet-wide scale

Russ of the BML 2:17 Mon Nov 17
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
Willtell 11:48 Sun Nov 16

"However, money and wealth is not the bottom line imho. Insufficient intelligence is. We can see there is a problem but are stuck on a gradual path to the destruction of our planet"

No, people are intelligent enough to know what they are doing is wrong. But, the millions and millions that foresting company owners make cause them to turn a blind eye to what they are doing. It is the 'I won't be around when the shit hits the fan' syndrome.

Hugh Jargon 11:56 Sun Nov 16
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
Yes it's global warming,,,,hang on snow next week I actually meant climate change. Yes...climate change.

Willtell 11:48 Sun Nov 16
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
Russ of the BML
I've just read your post and it's very interesting. I am not sure about the definition of greed being all about money and wealth though.

I'm sure human greed is intrinsic. If there wasn't money as a yard-stick for success it would be something else that we would covet and amass. Capitalism evolved naturally once human numbers grew and so drifted away from hunting and gathering as the method to survive.

Humans went to farming a piece of land so acquired land. Then stronger humans would steal their land and homes so we evolved into communities to protect individuals. Then we needed leaders to organise the community. He/she needed soldiers to fight off invaders and police the rules and so on.

Exchange of surplus goods between members of the community lead to exchanges between wider communities and to pay the administrators and police/soldiers so, we got money as a common unit of measure and so on down to where we are now still trying to get ahead.

We've tried living like insects where we all work for the good of the community (communism) and it has always failed eventually even where held together by force. Intelligent and human instincts are stronger glue.

Humans are too intelligent and yet not intelligent enough to act on the knowledge that our swelling numbers are killing the planet. We are intrinsically greedy to gather more than the next human for ourselves. Basically we possess a free will that does not work as well as it does for unthinking creatures like ants, bees, termites etc.

However, money and wealth is not the bottom line imho. Insufficient intelligence is. We can see there is a problem but are stuck on a gradual path to the destruction of our planet because if we don't keep on destroying it from England, Russia, USA and China will.

It will take a much greater level of destruction or a threat from outside the planet, for politicians to hand over the administration of every country on planet earth to a bigger world version of the EU. Unfortunately that is the only way I can see our planet surviving the current exponentially growing rate of destruction for more than say, another 100 years or so.

Hammer and Pickle 12:59 Sun Nov 16
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
Love your Planet and She shall taketh thee to the Universe.

Dapablo 12:53 Sun Nov 16
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
I perceive the purpose of life on the planet is to get off of it and into the universe, the state of the host/seed planet is actualy irrelevent.

The Joker 12:49 Sun Nov 16
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
The Earth will go on long after we have killed ourselves or made the planet practically inhospitable. It will heal itself and continue. All that is happening is we are slowly but surely killing OUR environment. However many species we take with us is almost irrelevant, as ultimately we will die out.

As a species we are completely out of sync with the ebb and flow of any kind of ecosystem and we act anything but intelligent in this regard. We are more like a virus that eventually kills the host and then dies because we were relying on the host's continued existence.

ohgodno 1:02 Sat Nov 15
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
Russ of the BML 12:01 Sat Nov 15

That's not a symbiotic relationship. The caterpillar has a defense mechanism that works until it doesn't and then the caterpillar dies. Make no difference to the ants if the caterpillar lives or dies.

ohgodno 12:59 Sat Nov 15
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
cholo 11:49 Fri Nov 14

Symbiosis is a stand off. If one species breaks the pact they both go down. At the point a symbiont does less well than its parasitic equivalent it is liable to replacement by a parasite. Any animal that does better without an associated symbiont will get rid of any it is stuck with eventually.

Russ of the BML 12:01 Sat Nov 15
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
cholo 11:49 Fri Nov 14

That specifically relates perfectly to Attenborough's Life Stories at the moment.

This week showed the caterpillar that deliberately sets up home near an ants nest. When they go on the rampage and literally devour anything in their path the caterpillar secretes a sweet substance which the ants love.

Because of the regular sweet deposits they take back they position two soldier ants with the caterpillar at all times as protection from other creatures.

Amazing. But you know as soon as the caterpillar dries up it will end up like the rest. Straight down the ants nest.

Russ of the BML 11:55 Fri Nov 14
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
flyingV 7:08 Thu Nov 13

Appreciate the response.

I believe there is a perfect state. And I would say that would look pretty much like how earth was before humans evolved.

A purely natural state with no man made interference. The whole eco-system working at 100% and the earth in a completely natural state.

I fully accept what you say about the 'evolutionary mistake'. In fact, you are dead right there is no right or wrong within evolution. I suppose what I mean is that the human race as advanced as it is now and growing at the rate it is now just doesn't appear to be sustainable.

So there seems to be now such a major in-balance between the natural world and the civilised world.

cholo 11:49 Fri Nov 14
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
ohgodno
Each member of an ecosystem is trying to fuck all the other members over.





Not necessarily. Symbiosis for example.

Russ of the BML 11:47 Fri Nov 14
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
ohgodno 5:31 Thu Nov 13

Interesting post. I accept what you say and appreciate the response.

Each member of an eco-system are basically out to get each other, I understand that. And because of that you can argue there is not harmony because they are direct rivals and instinctively programmed to kill each other. But, there is ecological balance.

Enough food to go round for all so that the food chain sustains itself from top to bottom. And to maintain that chain each part has to remain intact. To do that each part requires a healthy natural environment to thrive. Humans have removed a lot of that environment in many parts of the world so the chain breaks as one element of it is removed.

flyingV 7:08 Thu Nov 13
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
Russ of the BML 1:23 Tue Nov 11
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe

What are you on about?

There is no such thing as a "perfect state". I'm not sure you understand evolution. There is no such thing as an "evolutionary mistake". Evolution is an ongoing process that can be neither right nor wrong.

The earth's "eco systems" have changed since the beginning of time and will continue to do so. You are talking about a hypothetical snapshot within your own frame of reference.

You could argue that the original "mistake" by your own definition was the development of photosynthesising single celled organisms around 3.5 billion years ago which changed the earth's atmosphere from one with practically no oxygen present to the one we have today where complex life has been able to develop as a result.

CryBabies 5:49 Thu Nov 13
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
I'm interletual.

ohgodno 5:31 Thu Nov 13
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
Russ of the BML 5:18 Thu Nov 13

"Nature" has nothing to do with harmony or finely tuned ecosystems. Each member of an ecosystem is trying to fuck all the other members over. This is what drives evolution and natural selection.

The opposite of Nature is harmony. There's harmony on Mars and the Moon. It's the complete lack of Harmony and equilibrium that characterizes Earth. Resisting harmony (or death as it's better known) is what life does.

Russ of the BML 5:21 Thu Nov 13
Re: Intelligent life in the Universe
ajc123 2:06 Wed Nov 12

Also not sure what you mean about being humble. I am not a hippy or stand on a soap-box to shout about human's misgivings. I have done some stupid and cuntish things like most so am no angel.

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