WHO Poll
Q:



Marston Hammer 6:37 Thu May 14
Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/students-occupy-university-manchester-live-9256604#ICID=FB-MEN-main

only a matter of time before their demands are met
swt

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

Reality Cheques 1:40 Fri May 15
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
Stomper,

I was going to write an even longer response , but unfortunately I’ve got to crack on with work.

In short, nothing is really totally free be that education , health care or anything you care to name. At some point you & I & everyone/businesses have to pay for it one way or another be that with finance & time resources.

I get it & certainly agree wholeheartedly that education is an investment for the future of individuals & thus the country/society & it should not be limited to a select view.

However, true equality is unachievable imo simply because whilst many people are perhaps the same & deep down have similar values, many don’t & want to take different path to their existence & make different life choices, sometimes bad choices. That’s unless you want a state / society similar to North Korea where I’ve seen a stat on here , maybe bullshit I don’t know, where they have about a 98% literacy rate.

However, I do believe in giving people within the country an equal opportunity as far as possible, but not all will take that up that opportunity, nor care & want to – that’s their choice as an individual .

I equally get the wider point you make about degrees or whatever else is on offer potentially offering life skills beyond a badge/certificate & the potential self-worth & well-being that will bring. I’d argue that you don’t necessarily need a degree to accomplish that, but time doesn’t prevail.

Do we take a Asian stance where uniformity & more discipline prevails to enhance their maths, science skills & knock on literacy skills to replenish the machine as cynic may describe it, or do we carry on attempting to take a more wide broader approach as you described with your daughter.

Therefore, to me it’s a balance is what I’m trying to convey. I don’t think a starting point of the balance being totally free higher education as you describe it , is really a balance at all & one I agree with. In part for the reasons neilalex describes & any investment is two sided. I include finance in that as long as it’s balanced & as fair & as reasonable as possible .

Is it a right, a need or a want. You might say all three, but to me there are differences, subtle or otherwise & on the totally free higher education part as you describe it we just don’t see eye to eye.

neilalex 11:32 Fri May 15
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
Stomper - the belief that someone else should pay for your personal development is an open ended and infinite cheque book for people who are working and paying tax. There would be no logic to limiting the kind of 'right' that you refer to simply to degree courses. Should I have a 'right' to a course in accountancy, aromatherapy etc.etc?

stomper 2:11 Fri May 15
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
Reality Cheques 1:48 Fri May 15
And I also believe that people like me, who left school and paid taxes from the age of 16 should have the right of free education when we discover that we need the stimulation and training of a degree at the age of 27.
I would also say that I was dismissive of the value of a degree, in terms of training in analysis and expression, and the capacity of achievement of the human intellect, until I did a degree.
I became a citizen of far more value to society after I had a degree.

stomper 1:56 Fri May 15
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
No.
I'm saying that all courses have value even if they don't appear to at first glance and that talents and skills obtained at university have value, even if at first glance they appear, not to. They add value to be society, not just the individual. The value of the skill of in depth analysis is not to be sniffed at either.
Such training benefits society and should be funded by society

Reality Cheques 1:48 Fri May 15
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
& you seriously believe that people who do & want to work & pay taxes from 16 + should fund that completely free of cost for you & your daughter in order to obtain a good lesson in life through acting lessons.

Good God.

stomper 1:27 Fri May 15
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
neilalex 11:45 Thu May 14

That may be the case, but I think its wrong and the lack of funding is short sighted. I also believe that all degrees have value.
My daughter is doing a degree in theatre studies and acting. What use is that, unless she gets an acting career?
Well, she has to be plausible in all situations. She has to exude confidence even if she doesn't feel it and above all.: if she has a role in a play, no matter what the problem, no matter what the excuse the play has to be ready , and the performance has to be good on the day it is due.
Thats not a bad lesson for life.

Reality Cheques 11:53 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
Neilalex.

100% correct.

Hammer and Pickle 11:46 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
University in the UK is still the awe of the world.

neilalex 11:45 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
Stomper, a kid from your kind of background (which I was) isn't going to be less likely to go to university. Their parents won't pay. The tragedy I see is loads of kids with utterly shit degrees who have an expectation that that degree will be the key to a prosperous future. The reality for many is that they are simply saddled with an enormous debt and end up in jobs they could have got without the degree, and down several years in salary.

I understand that this doesn't apply to everyone but believe me, as an employer, I see it an awful lot.

, 11:41 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
It is absolutely much easier to get on a degree course now because it is a business. Not only that the universities are quite happy to take £9K p. a. from a student and give them a "Third" for simply turning up for three years. I know someone who wanted to drop out but was persuaded by a varsity counsellor to stay on for the final year only to be told in the following April it was not worth their while taking their finals.

Hammer and Pickle 11:38 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
You paid for my tuition and my folks paid for the maintenance I didn't spend on substance abuse, which I had to earn for myself.

stoneman 11:38 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
12 protestors? Kids these days can't even got motivated to protest, I blame games consoles.

Reality Cheques 11:37 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
Hermit is spot on.

stomper 11:34 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
Hermit Road

You might be right, in which case I 'm more than willing to be informed.
It took me a good 15 years to pay off my student loans tho I got a grant.
I was a warehouseman when I went to uni, son of a postman and a char lady, with no savings.
My wife was the daughter of an unemployed coal miner.
How could we go to college in England now?

Hammer and Pickle 11:33 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
Point is money should follow the person willing to learn.

I know the catholic church absolutely hates education but then so what.

Gentleman Jim 11:32 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
Stupid bleeding ipad

Holyrood.

Hermit Road 11:32 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
Can't what?

I've checked out the link. There's about 12 protesters. Lots of tweets though.

Modern day protestors are shit...


...and lazy.

Hammer and Pickle 11:29 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
Because they can't, Hermit?

Hermit Road 11:28 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts

stomper 10:28 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts


I don't think you know how students access Higher Education in thee UK if you think it is not available to children from low-earning families. It is, in fact it's much easier to do now than it has been for years. That they have to pay for it when they're earning is true, but then why shouldn't they?

Hammer and Pickle 11:27 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
With PR you wouldn't even know who was buying what, and at least you ought to know that.

Gentleman Jim 11:24 Thu May 14
Re: Students occupy University of Manchester over government cuts
Maybe these students should a sit in at Hollywood instead, seeing as there fees subsidise the Scottish students. Even European students can get fee free university education in Scotland, but not the English, welsh or northern Irish.

Page 1 - Next




Copyright 2006 WHO.NET | Powered by: