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Bullet 4:34 Sat Feb 20
EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
BBC
Britain will vote on whether to remain in the EU on Thursday 23 June, Prime Minister David Cameron has said.
The prime minister made his historic announcement in Downing Street after briefing the cabinet.
He said he would be campaigning to remain in a reformed EU - and described the vote as one of the biggest decisions "in our lifetimes".
Ministers immediately divide

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

Fo the Communist 3:40 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
SurfaceAgentX2Zero 3:18 Thu Jan 24

As I said, I have seen all that.
It is not a proposal for a European Army, it is a speech by one head of state at a time of international sabre-rattling given Trump's ambivalence towards NATO.
The article also states the response to other member states to the concept was not exactly enthusiastic.

And it concludes: "A number of proposals have been put on the table for how EU nations could cooperate more closely on defence. The European Commission says closer defence cooperation “is not about creating an EU army”.

I don't blame Leavers for jumping on stuff like this as it suits their narrative. That's the current game for both sides isn't it. But the facts of the matter just don't support the narrative that Britain would be press-ganged into joining a European Army.

Project Fear is a two-way street.

Irons. It is not a primary driver of the EU is it? That's my point.

ironsofcanada 3:34 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Fo the Communist 3:07 Thu Jan 24

"But it is far from the indefatigable march to a compulsory federal army that some would have us believe."

It doesn't need to be, if you have an organization whose primary drivers at this point are pushing a policy you don't want, why not leave the organization.

If we want to keep looking for loopholes where we can exclude ourselves from EU policies, why not just exclude ourselves from the EU.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 3:28 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
threesixty 3:17 Thu Jan 24

'No I didn't accuse any cabinet member of doing "deals"'

threesixty 2:45 Thu Jan 24

'Not a "deal" per se, so lets not get hung up on that one word please. Its so boring.

He was in a position of influence being Brexit minister and a cabinet member privy to government business at the highest level.

I doubt that any business man is allowed to give money privately to any cabinet minister whilst they are in their job. Further to that, if there were any subsequent exchange of money that could be linked to work fo the cabinet minster then in most lines of work, that would be investigated'

threesixty 2:36 Thu Jan 24

'I dont know of other ministers who are getting paid from JCB. Just those 2 prominent ministers who are now ex cabinet ministers. Those 2 were instrumental in advocating for the leave campaign and so is the head of JCB.


If it were me, in my company who happened to do deals that benefited company x and then I left and immediately got money from company x, would put me in a lot of trouble.'


You've clearly accused cabinet minsters of doing deals and illegal ones at that..

Now you are trying to pretend that you didn't mean actual cabinet ministers and you didn't mean deals.

You don't actually have a point, do you?

orwells tragedy 3:25 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
orwells tragedy 3:16 Thu Jan 24

"Anyone with half a brain would realise..........forget it."

Hammer and Pickle 3:17 Thu Jan 24

"Realise what fuckwit?"

You couldn't make it up!

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 3:18 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Here's Macron,not only unambiguously calling for an EU army but already, before it's even formed, threatening our most powerful ally with it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/emmanuel-macron-european-army-france-russia-us-military-defence-eu-a8619721.html

It's reassuring to know that the second most powerful person in the EU takes his lead on diplomacy from the Prime Minister in Love Actually. Fuck knows he'd like to turn that army on us if we won't let him carry on stealing our fish.

Hammer and Pickle 3:17 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Realise what fuckwit?

threesixty 3:17 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Surface

No I didn't accuse any cabinet member of doing "deals"

My original post:

"Its so brazen it's actually impressive.
A business man actively seeking to influence government policy at the highest level is blatantly putting cash in the pockets of cabinet ministers who actively can and have changed government policy."

I used the word "deal" to talk about if I were doing something similar, me, moi, in my job. The similarity being "influenced" by monetary gain.

But in your pedantry you picked one word that you (without looking at the original exchange) thought you could focus on to dismantle the whole thing.

After 2 yrs of arguing with you your tactics have never changed. You're so obvious everyone should just ignore you. I can't see the point in anything you say anymore.

orwells tragedy 3:16 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Anyone with half a brain would realise..........forget it.

Toe Rag 3:14 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Did I imagine the Falklands war?

BRANDED 3:11 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Plus some a bunch of European counties.

Hammer and Pickle 3:09 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
That’s some military-grade fuckwittery there from tragedy, folks.

BRANDED 3:08 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Didnt we have an empire then?

Fo the Communist 3:07 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Yes Bolty - two European heads of states have made noises about a European army. As the defence analysis states in the redoubtable Express such vagueness is not helpful.
But it is far from the indefatigable march to a compulsory federal army that some would have us believe.

boltkunt 3:07 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Not sure if true or not, but 80% of the EU is in recession....

orwells tragedy 3:06 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
1939

BRANDED 3:05 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
When was the last time we went it alone in a battle or war?

Fo the Communist 2:59 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
If it is a proposal then yes please do. If it's just some vague stuff from Marcron and Merkel then I have seen it..

And by the way, we have managed to stay out of the Euro by choice when the EU clearly wanted us in. A good job too, to save you the trouble of saying so.

boltkunt 2:56 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1076905/EU-news-Emmanuel-Macron-army-European-Union-France-latest

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 2:52 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Fo the Communist 2:42 Thu Jan 24

Of course not.

If you ask me a question using the word force, it is reasonable for me to ask you to define 'force'. Clearly you don't think the UK is forced to be a member of the ECHR and you don't think Italy and Greece were forced to have new governments.

If I post up a proposal for a European Army from Macron or Merkel will you shut the fuck up about it?

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 2:49 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
threesixty 2:45 Thu Jan 24

'Not a "deal" per se, so lets not get hung up on that one word please. Its so boring.'

You've just been complaining about 'cabinet' 'ministers' doing 'deals'. It now transpires that there weren't any deals and in any case no cabinet ministers are involved

That's all three crucial parts of your accusation that you no doubt think are boring details.

You haven't got a point.

threesixty 2:45 Thu Jan 24
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Surface

Not a "deal" per se, so lets not get hung up on that one word please. Its so boring.

He was in a position of influence being Brexit minister and a cabinet member privy to government business at the highest level.

I doubt that any business man is allowed to give money privately to any cabinet minister whilst they are in their job. Further to that, if there were any subsequent exchange of money that could be linked to work fo the cabinet minster then in most lines of work, that would be investigated.

But it seems pretty legal in politics...

(it could be said that Blair and Osborne did similar things considering the positions they took up after leaving.. but I dont think there would be anything is blatant as Davis being Bamford's very vocal advocacy of Brexit at all costs).

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