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Bullet 4:34 Sat Feb 20
EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
BBC
Britain will vote on whether to remain in the EU on Thursday 23 June, Prime Minister David Cameron has said.
The prime minister made his historic announcement in Downing Street after briefing the cabinet.
He said he would be campaigning to remain in a reformed EU - and described the vote as one of the biggest decisions "in our lifetimes".
Ministers immediately divide

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

mashed in maryland 12:20 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
An EU army would never exist, it's just another right wing Russian Brexiteer lie.

Well that was the case up til a few days ago according to Gavvy et al anyway.

neilalex 12:19 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
CM - I only used that as an example, but either way that is going to require a big chunk of currently individually sovereign defence budgets. That was my point as opposed to the details of how that army would operate.

I see a lot of nonsense on both sides. The idea that we can exit the EU without serious economic consequences in the short to medium term is utter bollocks. This utopia where we do free trade deals with all and sundry. Of course that won't happen. Over the years commercial pragmatism will reassert itself but the short term will be messy.

Equally, though, and far more seriously in my view, I see no consideration on the Remain side as to the question of where the EU must almost inevitably (IMO) end up. We are openly told we are heading for a European superstate. If you like that, all well and good, argue it on its merits, but I see virtually no discussion about this at all.

Capitol Man 12:10 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
neilalex 12:04 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron

It depends what an EU army looks like. Is it a centrally funded unified army or does it look like a better structured NATO, with less duplication and more specialism?

The military threat from Russia is real and is rising.

neilalex 12:04 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
I understand that, but that's evading the issue totally. The UK can stand outside the Euro with the GBP but that wouldn't impact at all on the UK's responsibility to contribute to budgets any more than it does now. Of course we'd be on the hook fiscally. To say 'this isn't a major issue' is nonsense simpy because our contribution is denominated in a different currency.

If, for example, there is an EU army, our defence budget would need to contribute, in fact be compelled to contribute, regardless of whether or not that is in GBP or Euros.

It's a simple question. Is that something that you see as desirable? If not what would you do about it?

Johnson 11:58 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
What’s your thoughts on the video of EU Guy, Gavvy?

Gavros 11:55 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Yes that's absolutely true, a monetary union requires a fiscal union or at least an agreed fiscal transfer system to survive long term

The UK isn't in a monetary union though, so this isn't a major issue.

You can claim "well it's bound to fail so we need out" but the geographic proximity means we would always suffer regardless anyway.

neilalex 11:43 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Gavros - you've alluded to the fact that medium term/long term the only way that the Euro and indeed the EU can survive is through fiscal union and all that that entails in terms of handing over power to a supra national body. I agree with that, I think it's inevitable. Either that or the thing unravels

At the moment fiscal transfer of funds is dressed up as loans, bail outs or Target 2 settlements, but eventually we have to call a spade a spade and transfer tax revenues from one place to another transparently.

If you accept the above analysis then the vote is about whether you want to be part of that or not. I've seen little commentary from Remain voters on that, it's as if things will just carry on as they are, which I believe is impossible.

Anyway, to cut a long story short do Remainers actually want fiscal and monetary union? I genuinely don't know, but I'm interested to find out.

Gavros 11:43 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
So the sort of Brexit that the nutters want has no legitimacy. And as such any hard Brexit led Tory party in another election - which is guaranteed if the Tories torpedo the withdrawal agreement - will lead to a soft Brexit Labour party that is likely to give a referendum on the final deal once it's agreed.

Its either soft Brexit or no Brexit. Deal with it.

Johnson 11:33 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
So?

Gavros 11:30 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
I spoke to someone who voted Brexit because they wanted to be able to buy their own house.

Capitol Man 11:18 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Mike Oxsaw 9:56 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron

See this kind of utter crap is the reason why it’s clear you are going to struggle to convince anyone you have a skill set that would play well on the global market.

17m people did not vote for hard Brexit. As ham explained yesterday he simply wanted more control on immigration.

Gavros 11:11 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
The problem with the ultras is this - if you bring down May, you bring in Labour, who will guarantee a 2nd ref. One that you will lose.

Fucking great watching this shit die a death.

Hammer and Pickle 10:09 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
I believe the toxic nature of this Brexit debacle will result in consensus building for further integration in the main old union core, with the Italian populists increasingly out on a limb and liable to collapse.

Let’s see what the next EU summit brings at the end of the month.

Mike Oxsaw 9:56 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
I take it that this latest proposal is going to be presented and spun in such a manner as to try and make those who voted leave (all 17,000,000 of them) now seem the bad guys just for still wanting what they have always wanted.

They'll have coerced/bought off the mass media and so "Best we can do" will be forced down everybody's throats, at every opportunity.

Hammer and Pickle 9:43 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
You can't even read then.

orwells tragedy 9:39 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
They are so committed to the the USofE(G) they never come out and say it, not one, ever.

Johnson 9:38 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Capitol MONG works at Walmart

Mike Oxsaw 9:34 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Capitol Man 9:16 Sat Nov 17

If you're identifying as unskilled Larry, then indeed that is the case - you'd have a problem. Anything more than a GCSE in Woodwork tends to ease things along.

In fact, Western nations tend to be the only ones interested in padding their population out with the unskilled. But professions? Grown-up professions? Nah. If you're good enough, you're in. Always.

That means you & me have never had a problem in that area, eh, matey-peeps?

Capitol Man 9:16 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Mike Oxsaw 8:14 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron

In most professions Mike. Yes.

Perhaps you have limited world experience.

BRANDED 8:16 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Ukranian brasses?

Mike Oxsaw 8:15 Sat Nov 17
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Gavros 8:12 Sat Nov 17

What is the end result of tariffs?

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