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Bullet 4:34 Sat Feb 20
EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
BBC
Britain will vote on whether to remain in the EU on Thursday 23 June, Prime Minister David Cameron has said.
The prime minister made his historic announcement in Downing Street after briefing the cabinet.
He said he would be campaigning to remain in a reformed EU - and described the vote as one of the biggest decisions "in our lifetimes".
Ministers immediately divide

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

neilalex 12:49 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Excellent, I respect that, although I disagree with it.

Hammer and Pickle 12:48 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
I'm in favour.

neilalex 12:46 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
These are simple enough questions to ask Pickle. My gut feeling is that a lot of Remain voters aren't ultimately in favour of a federal Europe which, under any realistic interpretation, means ceding control of budgets, taxation policy and foreign policy to a supra national body.

If they're not in favour of that then by voting to Remain they either haven't thought things through properly, or if they have are indulging in self deception as to where the EU is headed.

We ought to have a poll on WHO.

Are you in favour of the UK being part of a Federal Europe?

I'll kick it off. I'm against that. You?

BRANDED 12:43 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Ponceon is like a Bannon Bot

Hammer and Pickle 12:35 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Any poll of that kind, neilalex, would have to ask specific questions on fiscal policy and currency union, like whether people accept the Maastricht criteria. There would have to be a general understanding of what these imply for people at various times in a normal economic cycle. Certainly, there would be no room for the toxic populist nonsense we have been having throughout this whole awful Brexit process (which has been an absolute waste of three years now), and would require wholly different parties and media environment.

I say three cheers to that!

joe royal 12:25 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
I thought most voted out also .

neilalex 12:24 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
You may have accepted a form of federalism which is fine. My point is that it is virtually absent from the dialogue of Remain voters. I find that extremely puzzling. It's all about trade deals, immigration and the like, but little or nothing on this overwhelmingly important issue.

Maybe they just like the EU as it is and are voting for that. However, it can't stay that way for the reasons already outlined, reasons accepted by both sides of the argument. I would be very interested in a poll of Remain voters which asked them whether or not they are in favour of a fully federal Europe.

Johnson 12:05 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Most haven’t concluded that as most people voted to leave the EU in a recent referendum on the subject, Thickle.

What’s wrong with you?

Hammer and Pickle 12:02 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Thinking about it long and carefully what people do is consider the three basic conditions that determine everyone's lives today: globalisation, democracy and the state. Most have concluded the combination of those factors that works out best for Europe at this stage of play is an integrating EU with a single currency and increasingly efficient fiscal cooperation towards a smooth unified structure supporting sound money policy and sustainable development.

I am satisfied that is what the absolute majority of EU members want and I don't give a tinkers whether they are French, German or Reptilian if that is the case.

More details will emerge as to what the next steps are already this month at the EU summit. And if the UK doesn't like it, then it is with a heavy heart that we have to accept it.

neilalex 11:33 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
No-one is talking about the UK being on the hook fiscally for a collapsing EU; that is entirely missing the point. A Federal Europe may or may not do well, who knows?

The point is a simple one. Most sensible commentators, from either side of the argument, agree that the only way that monetary union will work properly is to also have fiscal union. Other than that it is likely to fail and countries will exit in time. Because of what fiscal union involves you almost inevitably then have political union and a form of federalism.

This means that the big stuff - taxes, budgets, foreign policy (how the EU army is deployed) - all happens at a supra national level. This shouldn't come as a surprise since it is the stated aim of the EU.

A lot of people might see this as a desirable thing, in which case that's fine, argue it on its merits. However, I see very little about it from the Remain side of the argument who seem to focus entirely on short term economic costs. The fact is though, if you vote Remain you are voting ultimately for a federal Europe. I don't see any other realistic conclusion

In my view this federal Europe will inevitably be dominated by a Franco/German axis with the latter as the dominant partner. The lack of competitiveness in places like Greece and Spain or wherever it happens to be will be subsidised by transferring revenues, entirely in the same way as cross subsidy operates in the UK now. Thus Germany gets help propping up these economies whilst benefiting disproportionately from a weaker currency than it would enjoy on a standalone basis. It suits an exporting economy perfectly.

Anyone who wants to remain needs to think about this carefully, because if it is something that doesn't appeal then ultimately all you are doing is postponing leaving. Sooner or later, if it is to survive in its current form, the EU will have to evolve into a federal superstate. You're either in or out.

Johnson 11:00 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Thickle has advocated exterminating or sterilising people who’s opinions he disagrees especially those who had the temerity to vote leave too.

A Nazi of the highest order.

He likes child rapists too so is a massive danger.

Hammer and Pickle 10:59 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Bannon and Cambridge Analytica were clearly more than "in the loop" with Leave.EU and Banks.

It's getting hot in there.

joyo 10:56 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Thickle you come across as a right little 'Stalinist',you really don't fit in a democratic society.

Johnson 10:56 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Leave.eu are far right?

You fucking idiot Branded, when will you learn to not blindly copy and paste stuff you don’t really understand? Cretin.

BRANDED 10:50 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
New Evidence Emerges of Steve Bannon and Cambridge Analytica’s Role in Brexit

Jane Mayer
For two years, observers have speculated that the June, 2016, Brexit campaign in the U.K. served as a petri dish for Donald Trump’s Presidential campaign in the United States. Now there is new evidence that it did. Newly surfaced e-mails show that the former Trump adviser Steve Bannon, and Cambridge Analytica, the Big Data company that he worked for at the time, were simultaneously incubating both nationalist political movements in 2015.

Emma Briant, an academic expert on disinformation at George Washington University, has unearthed new e-mails that appear to reveal the earliest documented role played by Bannon in Brexit. The e-mails, which date back to October of 2015, show that Bannon, who was then the vice-president of Cambridge Analytica, an American firm largely owned by the U.S. hedge-fund billionaire Robert Mercer, was in the loop on discussions taking place at the time between his company and the leaders of Leave.EU, a far-right nationalist organization. The following month, Leave.EU publicly launched a campaign aimed at convincing British voters to support a referendum in favor of exiting the European Union. The U.K. narrowly voted for the so-called Brexit in June, 2016. The tumultuous fallout has roiled the U.K. ever since, threatening the government of the Conservative Prime Minister, Theresa May.

Bannon did not respond to requests for comment. But his name and private e-mail address appear on the chain of three e-mails in October, 2015, between Brittany Kaiser, the director of program development at Cambridge Analytica, and Arron Banks, who headed the Leave.EU campaign and referred to himself in the title of his memoir as one of “The Bad Boys of Brexit.” Banks could not be reached for comment regarding the e-mails, which were first published Saturday by the British Web site openDemocracy.

Johnson 10:40 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
The end of WW2 was our greatest crisis, Thickle?

Really? I would have thought the start and during were worse?

And what behaviour would it be that offended you so much? I only asked you a couple of questions that sent you in to meltdown as you desperately tried not to answer them.

Presumably it was that. Now you’re ignoring me I suppose someone else will have to ask you. Eventually you’ll be talking to yourself though if you keep that up.

Sir Alf 10:38 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
I’m starting a campaign for a referendum on the terms of the Magna Carta! We were duped with false claims and lies !

Hammer and Pickle 10:31 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Johnson’s odious behaviour last night is a perfect example of the incessant campaign of poison spread by the Leave campaign and exactly why the Tory party has become a social-case rabble dragging the country into its greatest crisis since 1945.

He joins a list of toxic posters who have, in my opinion, no place on this forum and I won’t normally be interacting with him until further notice.

Johnson 10:13 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Don’t address me Hairy, you wife beating animal

Mike Oxsaw 7:01 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
orwells tragedy 2:12 Sun Nov 18

You're NOT allowed to say that!

The EU will forever remain as it was on the day of the referendum. Well, it would have done if those know-nothings had done as they were told.

And, anyway, if it does change, "they" know exactly what they're doing.

So, Ner! Ner! Ner! In wins.

Mike Oxsaw 6:36 Sun Nov 18
Re: EU Referendum 23rd June 2016 declares Cameron
Capitol Man 11:18 Sat Nov 17

They certainly didn't vote for that remainer invention the "soft" Brexit, either. They voted for Brexit.

Ever since you lot lost you've been trying to spin things around to getting your own way - and fuck the reality of the democracy within which the vote was entered by those who selected either option.

What do you want, a rock or a hard place? Them's life's realities.

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