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gph 3:25 Wed May 4
Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
According to local legend, Jesus is buried in Shingo, in rural Northern Japan. The next grave along contains Isukiri's ear.

It is claimed that Jesus' missing years, between his childhood and late twenties, were spent studying here.

He then returned to the Middle East, where he founded Christianity.

When the crucifixion was looming, Jesus persuaded Isukiri to take his place.

Later, Jesus wasn't able to claim Isukiri's entire body, but was able to smuggle one of his ears away.

He then returned to Shingo, where he buried the ear, became a rice farmer and lived until he was 106.

http://travel.cnn.com/tokyo/visit/did-jesus-christ-live-and-die-northern-japan-065383/

(I've used other sources as well, but lost track of them).

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

stomper 2:29 Fri May 6
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
Both require a ridiculous degree of creation of unsupported conjecture.

gph 5:47 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
"However, I think the deniers are as radical as the ones rhat insist he was the son of God."

Really?

The one requires that the laws of physics are subject to the will of a conscious entity, the other requires that human beings are able to write fiction.

norwaytips 5:39 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
The Quran means nothing at all. It was written after the death of Mohammed. We can only summise by what we have, we is precious little. However, I think the deniers are as radical as the ones rhat insist he was the son of God.
There was, without a doubt, a Christian sect of Judaism, during the first century. It expanding Very quickly and was an international sect/religion, by the end of the second century. The Pauline letters mention him, as did Tacitus and Josephus, though one the latter's references, is highly questionable.
If we demanded contemporary writings, before accepting historical figures, then quite a few would disappear from the history books. Tacitus confirms his execution and the existence of first century Christians. The one reference by Josephus, that seems genuine, is when he mentions James and says that he is the brother of the one the call the Christ.
It was a time of political/religious turmoil and it seems likely that the Jews were looking for a saviour. Inventing one, would have been a lot more difficult, than taking someone who fitted the bill. I just cannot see him being an invention. There were far too many people around, that would have heard of him. Much more likely, IMO, that the man existed.
As I said earlier, that does not mean accepting the gospels, which clearly had an agenda to create the Messiah.
The religion struggled along for a couple of centuries, until Nicea, when Constantine got it in his head to have a single religion for the Roman Empire. The Catholic church (for everyone) was willing to wheel and deal a bit. Take the pagan feasts and adopt them (Christmas for example) The new Roman church was born and the rest is much more reliable history. (See Stomper for reliable history)

gph 3:16 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
I know Paul Allen went to Tottenham, but that's OTT.

stomper 3:11 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
Thats because Paul is the creation of Satan and is the antichrist

MrTrentReznor 2:58 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
Plankton,
Surely this discussion is about contemporaneous writings about Jesus?
Mohammed was born circa 570. Mohammed never met Jesus, nor did he ever meet anyone who met Jesus. Nor did he meet someone who met someone who met Jesus so on & so forth.
The closest contemporaneous writings about Jesus are the Pauline epistles (but again, he never met Jesus).
He did however write that he met Peter & James the brother of Jesus.
But even then his writings lack a certain 'truth' (aside from some of the letters being considered forgeries).
When he met Peter & James he said he wasn't impressed by them.

Suppose someone on here met Payet ' s brother & best friend from Reunion Island.
I think most people would be pretty impressed by them wouldn't they?
Yet Paul met the brother & best mate of someone he considered the Messiah/ son of god/god & he wasn't impressed.
Does that not strike you as odd?
Also if you decided to write a book about Payet & you didn’t know whether he liked beef or salmon wouldn't you ask the people who knew him if he liked beef or salmon.
In Paul 's writings he agonised over what jesus thought about certain aspects of life.
Why not ask the people that supposedly knew him?

Unless that even at that stage Paul knew that Jesus was a concept as opposed to an actual physical being.

There is no record of Jesus or his family in any of the 3 census held around that time.
No record of his arrest.
No record of his trial & no record of his execution other than what is 'recorded' in the gospels decades later.
Like the Only Fools & Horses episode 'Time on our hands' elements in the biblical tale are true.
Herod existed, there was a census, John the Baptist existed & Pontius Pilate existed but not as portrayed in the bible.

Harrison made watches & Sothebys ' exists but it doesn't mean the Trotter brothers sold a watch for £6m.

gph 1:43 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
worm - that's why Isukiri is the real hero here.

*starts Isukirian sect. Give me your money and your women*

gph 1:41 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
I'm writing about Jesus right now.

Obvious proof that he existed. At least strong as the Koran...

worm 1:37 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
If my brother asked me to take his place in a crucifixion I'd tell him to fuck right off.

plankton 1:23 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
MrTrentReznor 1:27 Thu May 5

No non christian writer ever wrote about jess.
___________________________

I thought Jesus was mentioned more than once in the Quran?

2:253 Y. Ali and 3:45-51 Y. Ali, for example

:^) 4:11 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
Right on, blob. Wogan was complete bollocks, I'm almost glad he's dead.

joe blob 3:35 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
Files Jesus away with Wotan, Apollo, Neptune and Bert Russell's Celestial China Teapot under B for Bollocks etc.

stomper 2:07 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
MrTrentReznor 1:27 Thu May 5

Not Suetonius. He thought they were Jews led by Chrestus and as he was secretary to Hadrian he had access to all imperial records. Until he was in some scandal involving the Emperor's neglected wife. His passions, many and varied as they were did not appear to include women.

stomper 1:55 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
chiff 10:51 Wed May 4
The whole point of a thread like this (if there is a point) is to put forward your understanding and insights. So please dont C&P.
Anyway your source seems utterly uncritical in is use of historical sources.
Josephus is unreliable, and the bits mentioning christ were added later.
Celsus' work is no longer extant, you would be referring to Contra Celsum by Origen which is an extremely biased work against Celsus

Hayzer 1:44 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
Brian.. Leave that Welsh tart alone

MrTrentReznor 1:27 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
Not this horse shit again with the proof of he's us.
No non christian writer ever wrote about jess. All the so called non Christian references are not about jess they are about Christians, whether it was Pliny the younger, Suetonius, Taciturn etc not one of them proves the existence of jesus merely the existence of Christians decades after jess supposedly existed.
We also know the Josephine references are forgeries - most likely created by Eusebius. We know these are 4th century forgeries as the earlier christian writer Origen specifically said in his books Contra Celsum I & Contra Celsum II that a) Josephus didn't write about jesus & b) there was no record of jesus anywhere other than in the gospels.
References to earlier prophecies that jesus supposedly fulfilled & Christians does not prove he existed at all.
He is also not mentioned in the Talmud.
There is an opaque reference to someone called Yeshua & how one of his followers cured a snake bite.
That's pretty much it apart from another Yeshua who burned his shoes on the sabbath.

The only contemporaneous writings that have survived from that time are the dead sea scrolls. And guess what? Even though those guys wrote about everything possible eg cooking recipes, the weather, gossip there isn't one mention of jesus.
Yet Christians believe because they wrote about prophecies & the gospels were written to show jesus fulfilled these prophecies that these writings prove he existed.
I guess people will believe whatever they want to believe.

gph 1:15 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
chiff - can you edit out all the bits where it said Christians believed in Christ.

They're a bit redundant

Hammer and Pickle 12:50 Thu May 5
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
ffs!

Tomshardware 11:56 Wed May 4
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
Dru-Zod is a megalomaniacal Kryptonian, in charge of the military forces on Krypton. He knew Jor-El, Superman's father, when Jor-El was an aspiring scientist. When the space program was abolished after the destruction of the inhabited moon Wegthor (engineered by renegade scientist Jax-Ur), he attempted to take over Krypton. Zod created an army of robotic duplicates of himself, all bearing a resemblance to Bizarro. He was sentenced to exile in the Phantom Zone for 40 years for his crimes. Zod was eventually released by Superboy when his term of imprisonment was up. However, he attempted to conquer Earth with his superpowers acquired under the yellow sun. With his threat now obvious, Superboy was forced to oppose him and ultimately returned him to the Zone.

ohgodno 11:45 Wed May 4
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
chiff 10:51 Wed May 4

Christians believe that 2000 years ago a man called Jesus was born to a virgin, he was the incarnation of himself, himself being God. He performed miracles, gave sermons and rescinded Jewish law. He was tried and crucified and then ascended to heaven. They don't believe this story has been built on a Jewish rebel they believe it to be literally true on pain of eternal torture. The only Jesus that matters is the one believed in by Christians. Anyone who isn't learning disabled knows that man can not exist at any time in history. Leave aside there is no record of him or anyone even remotely like him.

Your history is bogus-the internet is full of reasons why that is so. Leave that aside- it doesn't matter. Your not proving Jesus existed you're proving a man existed. We know a man existed. Lot's of them have.

chiff 10:51 Wed May 4
Re: Mad legends: Jesus and his brother Isukiri
Considering the historical context, it’s remarkable that Jesus was mentioned at all in non-Christian historical documents. Yet while there is little reason we should expect first- and second-century non-Christian writers to mention Jesus Christ, some of them did. One was Josephus, the most important Jewish historian of the first century.[1] Another was a renowned Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus, who referred to Jesus early in the second century.[2]

Numerous second- through fifth-century critics of the Christian faith, including Trypho, Pliny, Celsus, Porphyry, and Julian, questioned what Christians believed about Jesus, but none denied He was a real person.[3] Jewish rabbinical tradition also confirms he lived.[4]

Lee Strobel, a professional journalist and author, points out that there is better historical documentation for Jesus than for the founder of any other ancient religion. Not only did Jesus’ followers worship him as God, but many skeptical historians also affirm His existence and the devotion of His followers.[5]

Even the skeptical participants of the “Jesus Seminar” acknowledge that Jesus was a real, historical person. Given the strength of these textual and historical evidences, it is very likely that Jesus not only lived, but was in fact who He claimed to be.

[1] “When, therefore, Ananus [the high priest] was of this [angry] disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity [to exercise his authority]. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road. So he assembled the Sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James.” (Antiquities 20.9.1)

[2] “Therefore, to stop the rumour [that the burning of Rome had taken place by order], Nero substituted as culprits, and punished in the utmost refinements of cruelty, a class of men loathed for their vices, whom the crowd styled Christians. Christus, the founder of the name, had undergone the death penalty in the reign of Tiberius, by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilatus, and the pernicious superstition was checked for a moment, only to break out once more, not merely in Judea, the home of the disease, but in the capital itself, where all things horrible or shameful in the world collect and find a vogue.” (Tacitus, Annals, trans. C. H. Moore and J. Jackson, LCL, reprint ed. [Cambridge, MA; Harvard University Press, 1962], 283)

[3] Trypho, recorded in Justin Martyr’s “Dialogue with Trypho,” denies that Jesus was Christ, but acknowledges Jesus’ historical existence. Pliny the Younger, a Roman senator and governor, refers to Christians as “reciting a hymn antiphonally to Christus as if to a god.” Celsus made the claim (echoed in the Talmud) that Jesus was a sorcerer and a bastard.

[4] “The Talmudic stories make fun of Jesus’ birth from a virgin, fervently contest his claim to be the Messiah and Son of God, and maintain that he was rightfully executed as a blasphemer and idolater. They subvert the Christian idea of Jesus’ resurrection and insist that he got the punishment he deserved in hell—and that a similar fate awaits his followers.

“Schaefer contends that these stories betray a remarkably high level of familiarity with the Gospels—especially Matthew and John—and represents a deliberate and sophisticated anti-Christian polemic that parodies the New Testament narratives.” (From the jacket summary of the content of Peter Schaefer’s book, Jesus in the Talmud)

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