WHO Poll
Q: 2017/18 Brighton (h)
a. If e can stop being the masters of our own downfall we should take 3 points, win
71%
  
b. We seem too flaky at the moment and don't expect an easy game, draw
8%
  
c. We can't put teams away and have a soft underbelly, lose
12%
  
d. Did you know that Eurovision 1974 was held in Brighton and launched ABBA onto the world stage with Waterloo
6%
  
e. I love Friday Night Football, it gives me the chance to show everyone down the local just how big a West Ham nut I am, hat, scarf, shirt, you name it I'll be wearing it
3%
  



ELLIOTTSHAMMERS 1:45 Sun Oct 16
Obiang


Don't care what you say makes so much difference in our midfield, protects our Centre halfs so well

Great victory yesterday although still not flowing football just yet but I think this will lift us and we can reproduce last seasons form

Zaza great work yesterday just needs a goal but upfront is still a massive worry

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

tnb 12:16 Fri Mar 3
Re: Obiang
Vexed,

I'm a Bilic supporter, if things have to be that polarised, but I think it's clear now that he works on a 'personnel first, system second' basis whereby the players he likes the most will always play even if it means putting them out of position. Noble, Kouyate, now Obiang and Antonio, Lanzini, and Carroll - and maybe Ferghouli too - will always play under him when they are fit. He also seems to have a 'the person in possession of the shirt keeps it until it is won from them' mentality which always makes it easier for the first person in that scenario and harder for the second one. So I'm not sure it's a case of needing an injury crisis to make changes, more that he likes to show and prioritise trust even perhaps after it's been exhausted. Antonio is a case in point - he had to wait his chance, then prove himself. But now he himself is part of that inner circle. So it can be done. Obiang has done the same.

That's not necessarily a bad way to manage, but it has its downsides and they have been shown up by the shoddy recruitment in the summer and, yes, unbalanced squad as it stands now.

We will probably never know the truth of how much of the responsibility for that lies with who.

Mart O 11:08 Thu Mar 2
Re: Obiang
Russ of the BML 10:09 Thu Mar 2

Just saw this now as hadn't checked the thread.

I agree they were all bad at the start of the season, I just think Kouyate was probably the worst.

I don't agree that Noble won't play further forward in a midfield three because of his ability to get up and down. To me, that's down to the fact that the only striker we have who could be effective in a 4-3-3 is Sakho (it'd never work with AC; he's not mobile enough and just gets isolated), plus it would mean choosing two out of Antonio, Lanzini, Snodgrass and Ayew.

I like Kouyate because he's combative but his technique is far too poor. Even playing in a back 3, he virtually never carried the ball out of defence.

The truth is, for me at least, our squad is poorly balance, notably in midfield. We can go back and forth, but I'm never going to accept that Noble is anything other than a positive element for us, despite his faults.

Sir Alf 10:22 Thu Mar 2
Re: Obiang
JustAFatKevinDavies 4:08 Wed Mar 1

Agreed :-)

Vexed 10:26 Thu Mar 2
Re: Obiang
Its a shame it takes our manager so long to realise things the whole world did ages ago. In 2018 he might get round to signing a right back and a forward. Obiang has been decent for us pretty much since day one. The plank Bilic needs an injury crisis to loom before anyone gets a chance.

Russ of the BML 10:09 Thu Mar 2
Re: Obiang
Mart O 4:59 Wed Mar 1

"It's almost like you are forgetting that Kouyate wasn't just bad at the start of the season, along with many others. He was appalling, by far our worst player at the time imho."

How so? Read what I said. I said they were ALL shit. And when I say ALL I lump Kouyate into that category.

Your opinion on Kouyate is respected. He can be inconsistent. My point is that I believe he offers more to the team partnering Obiang than Noble.

And you even say you think Noble is better off playing a little further forward in a 3 man midfield. But he never plays there. And he won't. Because he doesn't have the engine to get up and down.

I believe Noble is that player but is struggling to cover the grass required. Hence he ends up sitting in with Obiang as an extra DM. It makes us too negative and instigates this sitting back and waiting for attacks.

collyrob 5:01 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang

JustAFatKevinDavies 4:08 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang


Hahaha

Mart O 4:59 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
Russ of the BML 4:43 Wed Mar 1

It's almost like you are forgetting that Kouyate wasn't just bad at the start of the season, along with many others. He was appalling, by far our worst player at the time imho.

As I said below, he can offer the things you mention on some occasions. He can also be fucking shit, trap the ball further than I can kick it and run round like a headless fucking chicken on others.

Like I said earlier, I like him. Principally for his attitude which I think in general is pretty good. That doesn't change the fact that he's far too inconsistent and his technique lets him down too often.

I disagree about the similarity between Noble and Obiang too. I don't think Noble has ever been comfortable as an out and out DM. He'd be far better off playing a little further forward in a 3 man midfield for me.

Russ of the BML 4:43 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
Mart O 4:20 Wed Mar 1

It's almost like you are pin-pointing shitness on Kouyate when, to be fair, they were all fucking shit at start of season.

Kouyate offers something Noble doesn't. Box to box running and getting on the end of things in the opponents box. He also carries the ball with those long strides and can suddenly in the blink of an eye take us up to the opponent's box.

My opinion is that with both Obiang and Noble sitting we are too defensive and lack that offensive link up. For me Obiang and Noble are too similar.

JAC 4:36 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
Noble...you must be kidding.....had his chance and did a good job....better players at the club now, bench at best now.
Sad but true.

Mart O 4:20 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
I like Kouyate, I just can't see how so many get all dewy eyed about him playing in midfield when he was utterly shite in his last spell there. Everyone else may have been poor at the time too but he was by some way the worst.

On his day he can be great at winning the ball and bursting forward with it. He also however does a remarkably convincing impression of Mo Diame when it's not his day.

His control and technique are too often too poor and he's totally without discipline positionally when playing in midfield. The only way he can play there for me is as part of a 3 alongside Noble with Obiang covering the defence.

terry-h 4:12 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
Trevor B 3:48
Claret and Hugh post dated 4 May 2015 concluded "Tony Henry Recruitment Director to the Board was driving the deal and was confident that Obiang would be the club's first signing of the summer."

Whatever we think of Hugh Southon he does get info from David Gold. I assume this was accurate as Obiang deal was completed a month later.

JustAFatKevinDavies 4:08 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
Alf, its been a good 3 years I reckon since anyone bothered to read to the end of one of your posts

Sir Alf 4:07 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
Kouyate is going become a problem ( a good one ) longer term I think. He has had games in midfield and especially last season where he has been a real force on the ball with his ability to run with it. In some games he has also shown he can "step in" and wrestle the ball back with tackles but on both counts has never been consistent at doing this. Even last season he had games where he was anonymous. This season when he started in midfleld for the first awful 6 games we had, he was totally anonymous, losing the ball and looking back from a position upfield at the midfield and defence getting overrun. We were highly vulnerable on the break.

It is true that we have yet to see a Kouyate / Obiang central axis tried for a run of games. It may take that to gel and see the best results. However, it means dropping or not starting with Noble. So then what do you do with Kouyate?

Firstly, if he wants to play in midfield, he needs to become a consistent, all round midfield player who puts in a shift defensively, tracking and pressing for the majority of the 90 minutes in most games. He has never done that. Obiang does and ironically we may never have seen what a player he is without those first disastrous 6 games at the start of the season.

While I think Noble is at a tipping point where he should no longer be a guaranteed starter in every game, I have always thought Kouyate, aside from his inconsistency and anonymity in games, is simply not technically good enough for midfield if we want to progress to the upper end of the league. Good to have in the squad but not as a starter in midfield. Obiang needs better than both Noble and Kouyate in central midfield if we are to improve IMO.

So where does that leave Kouyate? I was hoping he might make right back his own but after a decent start we have seen he is probably not a good fit there either :-(

Next season is one where Bilic has some difficult decisions. Of course, striker and right back are priorities but that central midfield birth is not far behind and we need better. Fernandes? Not sure yet. Still needs more of a run.

I would love to see a Dembele type or obviously a Kante alongside Obiang. Run all day but technically (passing,, control, skill) very good too.

But in Obiang we have a lynchpin for several years we need to build around. Chelsea have shown and Tottenham and City that 2 strong central midfielders who are all round defensive and attacking midfielders, provides the platform for the creative and flair players like Hazard, Eriksen and in our case Lanzini to do what they are good at.

Lily Hammer 4:04 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
As good as Kouyate can be on his day, and as good as Obiang is becoming, nether of them naturally do the job Noble does for us. I almost cry at how many of our fans don't see how important the captain is to our game. A better player could come in and do Noble's job better, but not Kouyate or Obiang.

I like Noble and Obiang in the middle right now, even though Noble is more than just a central midfielder; he's all over the park, making things tick. He is wiser at when to slow things down and when to speed things up.

On The Ball 4:01 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
Mart O 3:46 Wed Mar 1

Er, he scored the first goal in history. You watch your mouth.

JustAFatKevinDavies 3:57 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
Mart O 3:46 Wed Mar 1

Trevor B 3:54 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
O

I think V means 'out of form'. Players don't turn 'bad' overnight.

No amount of Bayesian Econometrics can tell you that though, it's common sense, which seems to elude a lot of people who like to think they are intelligent.

Alex V 3:52 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
Mart O 3:46 Wed Mar 1

Every player in the squad was bad at the start of the season.

Trevor B 3:48 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
h

How do you know that Henry had anything to do with it at all? Sullivan could easily have been contacted by one of the many agents and intermediaries within the game.

Again, another example of people knowing fuck nothing and exhibiting that they know fuck all.

Mart O 3:46 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
Kouyate was fit at the start of the season and played I don't know how many games in midfield.

He was shockingly bad, probably our worst player. Let's just forget about that though.

Russ of the BML 3:28 Wed Mar 1
Re: Obiang
But, have to agree. With Obiang and Kouyate fit I really struggle to see where Noble fits in.

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