WHO Poll
Q: 2017/18 Leicester (h)
a. Moyes has had all week with the whole squad and that will make a difference, Win
15%
  
b. Where do we start, a point would be good, Draw
12%
  
c. Let's be honest we're a shambles, still letting in two goals a game so what chance, Lose
43%
  
d. "You've destroyed our fucking Club", the only way to get the pride back in WHUFC is when the Clowns leave, Who's up for a protest?
25%
  
e. Can you believe my luck, another game on SKY so back to the pub, head to toe in club merchandise and show that I'm hardcore West Ham who follows the Club home and away from my seat at the bar
5%
  



peachy75 1:37 Sat Dec 31
johnathan calleri
This boy has not been given a fair crack of the whip and i feel he will go on to be a great player. A bit like javier mascherano who was never given a chance with us.
Carlos tevez took over 20 games to get his 1st goal.
Hope he stays and gets given another go.

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

Trevor B 7:48 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
You didn't but bearing in mind what I said about no PL clubs building for the future at the expense of the moment then I implied it, didn't I? Sorry, didn't realise you were on one of your boring little crusades V where you have to argue about every tiny little minuscule thing. Have a nice night.

Alex V 7:37 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
>>> so every single PL club is wrong

Where did I say that?

Trevor B 7:33 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
Cool, so every single PL club is wrong, so why don't you go and tell them all what they should be doing? Calleri is 23.

Alex V 7:30 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
Trevor B 7:10 Mon Jan 23

I have criticised the board repeatedly for that very thing. With Bilic I can only criticise the decisions I can see - if he has a more progressive approach that he feels is being stifled at the club he should be bringing it up.

Also I don't support the fixation only on the age of players or academy issues - Calleri is also a young player after all, and we know the difficulties of developing young players. That could definitely be improved imo. But it's more broadly about the principle of thinking beyond one game and looking at the bigger picture in all areas not just always picking a younger or more senior option in a game. And it's not just applicable to squad selection, but also playing style, training, transfers, contracts, facilities etc.

In all these areas I think the club doesn't think deeply enough beyond the here and now.

Trevor B 7:10 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
V

It's down to the board to give the manager his targets, if they want to promote youth and build for the future then they give him a long term deal and tell him building is more important than immediate results. But no PL club is going to do that in reality, even the like of Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City who all have excellent academies rarely promote players, and when they do so it will often be in meaningless European ties and cup games to start with. Whereas those games to a club like us still have meaning.

eusebiovic 7:05 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
OK, he scored against Boro but it was a really limp inaccurate effort that only went in because of a deflection

Not convinced...I saw more from Ashley Fletcher - as raw as he is

Alex V 5:44 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
>>> It's a ridiculous argument because we all know that football managers have a life cycle that is shorter or longer depending on the degree of success they enjoy.

It's all a bit of a vicious circle because you have managers fighting to keep their jobs, which leads to them using the sort of short-term methods which lead to situations where the club makes no long-term progress so the manager has to continue fighting to keep their job. No good comes of that imo.

It's also the wrong focus imo. Can I sympathise when Bilic's focus in entirely on the next match and little else? - of course I can. Especially when as you say it seems his job has been on the line. But is it the right thing for the health of our club? Of course not - you can't continually gear for the next result alone and expect the club to genuinely develop in any positive way. The club is more important than any sympathy I might have for an employee.

Willtell 3:51 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
It's a ridiculous argument because we all know that football managers have a life cycle that is shorter or longer depending on the degree of success they enjoy.

I reckon had WH lost the 2 games against CP & Middlesboro' DS would have sacked him today. He said those games were cup finals and today said je was "glad for Bilic".

I have no doubt that Calleri has got back into contention for a place by hard work and looking useful in training as has Feghouli. I have no doubt that if Fletcher, Oxford or any other young player was doing the business every day in training he'd be in contention too.

It's an easy call for fans to want our youngsters to be given a chance as though the "chance" will make a difference to their ability.

For professional coaches whose reputations are riding on their decisions, they need to be sure players are ready so the only time it will happen is when they stand out against first teamers during training.

Anyone can come in once and score a lucky goal as Calleri has. It's when they can deserve a regular place is the key and that shows in the training games. I think to be on the bench in front of Fletcher shows our coaches rate Calleri a better bet than Fletcher....

Sniper 3:48 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
I actually think the nature of long term visions have changed for different clubs. Spurs used to spend a fortune on big name players who were touted as the next big thing and got nowhere. Their recruitment policy is now based on need - wanyama, wimmer, alderweireld were all just what they needed.

Southampton have their dossier of potential signings based on the assumption that, if their players do as well as they expect them to, they will be picked off by bigger clubs and they need replacements lined up

Chelsea buy every young player they can and loan out 40 a season

There has to be a balance between now and the future - if you sign good youngsters without good players for here and now then if they show potential they will be picked off. If you onkybsign players for now you are constantly treading water. I personally think we've been doing alright in terms of balancing these - fonte is an excellent stop gap whilst Oxford and Burke are developing and they should be ready as fonte starts to fade. That's actually very sensible business - and fonte brings the leadership kirbdefence lacks as well.

My main issue is the number of loans to fill gaps. Calleri is an obvious issue here - with no option to buy there's little incentive to improve him for the future for someone else's benefit so we just have to play to his strengths now whilst other players rot on the bench. I don't see the point. Unless you're loaning the new messi/ronaldo who is clearly going to improve the team, loaning a raw youngster with no option to buy who has never played in this country is stupid

Trevor B 3:47 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
V

can you please tell us what each and every board at every club sets out as goals to their managers please? cheers.

Grumpster 3:45 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
Well enlighten us then V?

Am guessing none of the ones you mention will have won fuck all, as including teams/managers with players who have cost over 10 million notes isn't having vision, it's buying ready made class.

Alex V 3:38 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
For me it's clear as day which clubs and managers are working to a long-term vision, rather than purely short-term motives. It's the difference for me between the teams that seem to be able to outperform season on season, rather than those who fluctuate around a static or diminishing level. Amazed that some seem so blind to it.

Sniper 3:34 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
Alex V 3:07 Mon Jan 23

You mean like fergie did when he retired just as Ferdinand, evra and visit were on their way and van Persie was always injured?

No future planning at all - fergie himself said he worked in 3 year cycles for regenerating the squad but even he didn't bother planning ahead for his last two seasons. Apart from Phil jones of course

Trevor B 3:29 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
spot on oa

it does depend on what brief the manager is given by the owners. for instance a manager in the championship may be brought in and given time to build a team, to encourage youth etc, whereas a PL manager will probably not be afforded the time to build for the future simply because of the riches on offer.

ornchurch ammer 3:23 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
Not saying I agree with but it is a fact of life in football.
Managers pick the best available for today as there may well be no tomorrow.

Some managers, like Pep, may plan longer term but that is purely because they know that their reputation gives them some breathing space.

Willtell 3:23 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
Any PL manager that plays for the long term is about to get the sack...

Grumpster 3:15 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
It's not the 1990's V, it just simply doesn't happen anymore, as there is too much money in the game to be able to afford to write off any league positions blooding players.

Alex V 3:07 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
>>> No managers look at anything other than the here and now with the exception of the odd round in the shit cup comp and the end of season games.

Wrong imo. The best managers do things with the long-term health of the club in mind.

Grumpster 2:19 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
No managers look at anything other than the here and now with the exception of the odd round in the shit cup comp and the end of season games.

It's about winning games and keeping their jobs.

They see what they need to in training and will give a player some minutes if they feel they are right for that game.

We weren't chasing a goal on Saturday, so he went for the slightly more experienced player.

Lily Hammer 2:17 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
Here and now = Fonte

Bigger Picture = Holland

No?

Alex V 2:13 Mon Jan 23
Re: johnathan calleri
>>> Alex - why should Bilic see the bigger picture when there's a chance he won't be here next season? He has to concentrate on the here and now, all managers do.

And you agree with that approach?

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