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The old c wing 12:23 Thu Jul 27
Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
Trying to lay the responsibility for mass murderers and child killers on the use of anti depressants.

Will probably scare the shit out of thousands with no scientific evidence to support it.

Most of these fuckers are on them because the are broadly depressed, alienated and odd fuckers anyway.

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

Russ of the BML 1:35 Fri Jul 28
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
Bungo 11:37 Fri Jul 28

Good post.

"Most doctors realise that prescribing an anti-depressant is like applying a plaster to a cut to stop the immediate bleeding, not curing the underlying problem, but it's often the best they can do in a 10 minute consultation."

I agree.

Bungo 11:37 Fri Jul 28
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
Russ of the BML 11:22 Fri Jul 28

"Sometimes all a person needs is another person to just devote as long as it needs to them to listen".


This is true and I believe virtually all GPs would agree with this, however the one thing they don't have is time.

I work in pharmaceuticals and have spoken to thousands of doctors over the years, including countless specific discussions about the use of anti-depressants.

Incidentally the traditional pharmaceutical industry has no interest in the financial success of anti-depressants, as they are all available generically now.

In general most GPs would say they are 'just doing what they can' with what they have available to them. Most will also refer depressed patients to an appropriate talking therapy too, and will realise this has the better chance of long-term success, but they will prescribe an anti-depressant initially, as this will possibly make the person feel a bit better short-term. The talking therapies are usually heavily over subscribed too so the patient may take some time to start, and even longer to feel the benefit from this therapy.

Most doctors realise that prescribing an anti-depressant is like applying a plaster to a cut to stop the immediate bleeding, not curing the underlying problem, but it's often the best they can do in a 10 minute consultation.

Russ of the BML 11:22 Fri Jul 28
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
Hammer and Pickle 8:30 Thu Jul 27

Spot on mate.

I had a bloke in my office crying for half an hour. I just sat with him. Made him a cup of tea. Once he'd cried he just started talking. I realised then that I was in for the long haul. Three and a half hours he was in my office that afternoon. We were last ones there. About 6pm he got up and said he had better go home and the next day when he came in he said he slept straight through for nine hours which he had not done for three years and that day he felt as happy as he had done for as long as he could remember.

He then went on to do Cognotive Therapy and 1-2-1 counselling and he is pretty much there now. He see's his therapist every three months and is on low level medication but due to come right off it and is just waiting for a medication review.

I'm not taking any credit I just sat there and listened to him. Just reiterating your point. Sometimes all a person needs is another person to just devote as long as it needs to them to listen.

ohgodno 9:03 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
LOL at all the middle aged snowflakes who need their special pills so they don't get sad.

Gavros 9:01 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
Panorama. The Skate Inn. The Seahorse.

Cor I fancy fish and chips now.....

bruuuno 8:54 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
Panorama has always been the same - sensationalist bullshit. I stopped watching it 20 years ago for these reasons and it obviously hasn't changed

The old c wing 8:46 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
Oops

So bizarrely unscientific and sensationalist it was untrue. I'm not sure how the fuck they can produce this with the 'integrity' of the bbc and panorama there to support it.

Much the same as the Olympic stadium bullshit.

The old c wing 8:45 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
Most of you seem to be missing the point here. I'm not arguing the overprescribing of medication for depression or mental health issues.

Nor the fact (e.g. Comma) that many people who previously wouldn't be in free society today remain so.

The programme was a massive pisstake, blaming those drugs for the actions of these individuals, ignoring specifically the Holmes case, they had relatives of those who had committed these crimes blaming the medication for it.

It was so bizarrely

Hammer and Pickle 8:30 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
What struck me Russ was the strength of the consensus running through the patients, psychiatrists, psychologists and orderlies - while we don't deny the need for medication as intervention, the real treatment is about not so much therapy but simple, common-or-garden kind attention and attentive listening, is what was being said by all.

I was quite struck by it given my previous scepticism about 'talking cures' with respect especially to depression, and here were full-on jumpers just gagging for a chat and a cup of tea with someone ready to understand them.

deanfergi 5:37 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
I went a bit wonky trying St. Johns Wort (maybe the mix with spleep apnoea and ecstasy didn't help)....

https://www.uow.edu.au/~bmartin/dissent/documents/AIDS/

Russ of the BML 3:59 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
Hammer and Pickle 12:01 Thu Jul 27

Well, the trouble is I see it all the time. Managing people is hard at the best of times but the last five to ten years it's even harder.

In that time several people I manage have been diagnosed with depression / anxiety and on every single case the first time they went to their GP they were given anti-depressants.

It was the ones that they didn't work on that then had to go further into the system for further counselling, cognitive therapy, 1-2-1's etc etc.

Being honest they have all said, apart from one, that the system massively helped them and as their manager I can see the result by getting back to work and like their old self again.

The only problem I have with this are a) their first response to their case was anti-depressants and b) during and after any therapy they are ALL still on anti-depressants of varying quantity and usage.

And it is this overwhelming reliance on the pills that is worrying.

Why are people not put into therapy with the intention of not only getting them back to themselves but also completely off medication?

Why is the reliance of medication so prevalent? And why is it so common?

I used to work with a woman that was on anti-depressants for ten years before I knew. And when she told me she said she had not had a medication review for six years.

Just a system that is happy for people to keep on popping pills just to keep them out of the surgery's and not reliant on direct care or therapy.

It's very sad.

Boycie 1:37 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
all I can say is avoid at all costs ever putting one of your relatives in any mental health unit. All they are these days is containment tanks.

Hammer and Pickle 12:01 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism

Russ of the BML 10:21 Thu Jul 27

Just finished translating a coding project for the local psychiatric health care system. This was basically scripts of patients, psychiatrists and social workers who had been recorded talking about all aspects of their experience of the psychiatric system, from initial referral through discharge, daycare treatment and controlled employment - the whole can of worms.

Anyway, can confirm your post is basically bang-on correct because the use of medication as a substitute for proper psychiatric care and psychotherapy was a constant thread running through the whole thing. As was underfunding.

Sydney_Iron 11:56 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
Infidel, yes and no, from day 1 people have been bullied, teased and picked on when they are growing up, expect we all saw it at school, anyone slightly different or vulnerable saw a small minority see them as easy prey.

But think a lot of the internet bullying is often anonymous by those carrying it out which makes it harder for some to handle, it’s the trolls who once they have someone on the run are relentless with the persecution and ridicule of everything they say or do, back a few years ago, they would know who the bullies were, got to know how to avoid them etc, these days with a mobile phone 24/7 its nie on impossible unless you turn the thing off, which for your average teenager would be life ending thought not to have that one must have piece of gadgetry.

And yes, life would be better with out smart phones or the internet, too late know though, we are all hooked..................

, 11:56 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
I don't think that the Panorama programme is fediculously irresponsible journalism as it happens.

There are quite clearly people about in our community whose mental state would have had them confined in the past but in the present day they are allowed out and about and are responsible for taking their own meds. Despite there being fatalities over the years caused by some of these people the situation is not being addressed properly.

Coffee 11:56 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
The Kronic 11:36 Thu Jul 27

I'm also not a fan of Facebook, but started a group on there two or three years ago as an afterthought to support a website I'd set up. To my considerable surprise, that group outperformed the website massively and now has about 75,000 members and has done a lot of good stuff. I recognise what Facebook can do, but am still not a huge fan.

Westham67 11:54 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
Infidel 10:55 Thu Jul 27

Probably because in those days people were scared of being looked at as odd or an outcast, so kept in inside themselves

Westham67 11:47 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
Russ of the BML 10:21 Thu Jul 27

Infidel 11:42 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
I'm not on facebook or instagram or twitter or any of the other SoMe sites.

My life is the richer for it.

The Kronic 11:36 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
Social media is sugar coated bollocks, infested by insecure cunts portraying their bullshit 'perfect' lives. And people believe what they read, question why their lives aren't as 'perfect' and fall into depression.

I love the Internet but can't stand superficial SM sites like Facebook.

Infidel 11:29 Thu Jul 27
Re: Panorama tonight - ridiculously irresponsible journalism
Sydney

The abuse on here is benign, partly because we are all anonymous under the rules of the site and partly because we are all West Ham at the end of the day, so we're family.

Social media is a bastard. Your identity is known and the abuse is therefore deeply personal and much more devastating.

Kids get their first smartphone at 8 or 9 these days. Hardly bears thinking about how we can expose kids of that age to the full force of social media abuse. And there's no way to protect them - parents have no idea what is going on the many social media sites kids log into.

I wish we could uninvent smart phones.

In fact I wish we could uninvent the internet. The world was better without it.

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