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Roeder-nowhere 9:00 Sun Aug 20
DNA of West Ham - flawed????
Stewart Robson as mentioned on WHO, wrote an interesting article blaming a fundamental issue within the club (an issue in their dna he said) which prevents the club ever becoming a genuine "big club". Also he touched on the ego factor where the players get too big for their boots & rule the roost!

So what it this inherent problem & why can't we shake it? I'm not sure but it seems there has always been a lack of professionalism running through the club, recurring themes of players on the lash or in trouble with the law, administrative cock ups and such. Surely there have been enough changes in management to spot this and rectify it however or are they forced to tow the line with the club ethos??

West Ham has always been a"family club", maybe therein lies the problem, we're too nice, players allegedly bringing their dogs in for training, going home whilst at team hotels to put the kids to sleep - commendable on a personal level but not professional. Doesn't happen in any other industry! Everybody seems to love West Ham, players and other teams fans (we're their 2nd favourite club!!!) not to mention the older "last legs" players that love coming to us and continually rob us blind woth high wages and shit performances before retiring (Arbeloa the latest prime example of throwing hundreds of thousands away)!! They are ALLOWED to get away with it!!

Look at Carlton, couldn't keep him away from West Ham! Loved the clib! Why? Apparently turned down a big money move to Galatasari when he was on his hot streak and played for England. Why is that? Easy life,not pushed hard in training, little danger of losing your place if you are a steady eddie!? It's just all too nice and cosy... just like Uncle Billic it seems who I doubt would lose his shit with anybody when they genuinely need the millenium falcon up their jacksy nevermind a rocket! This cosiness clearly extends to coaching staff, ex players coming back to coach or "help out" and getting a nice big pay packet into the bargain... good old Dicksie, Sherinham the attacking coach, Steve Potts in the wilderness driving taxis - lets bring him back as youth team coach - perfect candidate cos he's West Ham extended family!!!

Whatever it is, you just don't hear of the goings on at Arsenal, Spurs etc that you do at West Ham, from the owners senile tweets (as well as his teenage sons tranfer leaks) to Mannygate, 25 million must pay after 12 games clause for Zaza or the Tevez affair. We truly are a circus, entertaining for sure, keep the punters coming but with the same run of the mill finale. Promising much achieving nothing!!

We have always had bigger gates and more finances than many other clubs, even more so in the OS now yet those supposedly smaller clubs are performing better, achieving more and often spending less year after year (Southampton being the obvious example). Why??

I don't know the real answer hence the post, but Robson is definitely on the money here, there is something fundamentally wrong with the set up of the club that never changes..

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

Swiss. 11:40 Mon Aug 21
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
Is the DNA flowed at;

Villa
Sunderland
Leeds
Birmingham
Blackburn
Notts Forest ?

Grumpster 11:38 Mon Aug 21
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
All about the individual I'm sure and their age, as in how they deal with the disappointment.

I had a great day out on Saturday, though it's been a long time since I've let the football get in the way of the day out, as it's not the game I grew up loving anyway.

Most clubs are in our position historically and so it's nothing to do with the DNA, we're in the same position as 97% of the other clubs in the football league. Has pretty much been the same mobs monopolizing the trophies for the past 40/50 years with the odd cup winner (and a freak Leicester title thrown in) thrown in and the only way another team has joined the elite club, is by being bought by a billionaire who goes fucking silly with money and I'd hate that to happen to us, as it also then completely changes our fan base, as we'd end up with all of the embarrassing idiots that those clubs now have.

Bad enough being moved into that fucking shit stadium to change the clubs dynamic and in turn set the football back for a couple of years, as happens to every team moving stadium.

Russ of the BML 11:22 Mon Aug 21
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
No different to the 85/86 season when literally after we bought fucking no one and never kicked on. Players very critical of Lyall and the club.

Alvin Martin said he was expecting players like Steve McMahon or Graeme Souness to come in the summer. And also talk of getting Mick Harford to help TC and Mac and add some bite up front to hang onto leads.

No one came in. The rest is history.

I think things have changed. We are more professional. But so are most clubs these days.

We have a great support. No doubt. But the point is many of our supporters are flawed as they are now so apathetic. We just accept disappointment as that's all it's been.

I mean, I was at a BBQ on Saturday afternoon and when we heard the score we all said, in virtual unison "Same old West Ham" and unfortunately that is, for many supporters, a way of dealing with disappointment.

New Jersey 11:12 Mon Aug 21
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
The signing of Snodgrass is an example of our lack of professionalism. Was it £12m fee plus about £70k in wages (eat your hearts out Yid players)?

I thought he would be a decent signing (along with Fonte) but he has been actually crap, not even on the bench and he has been told he can go (probably to Burnley, where he no doubt will score the winner against us with a brilliant free kick!

If this happened in the real world, heads would roll, as it will be a massive waste of money. If he just wasn't up to it he should never have been signed or if he was, just what the fuck has gone wrong with him? What was his actual role going to be, was his fitness levels tested, was any psychological testing carried out (he visibly shrunk in front of 50k plus fans, does he like a drink, gamble, all this should have been find out!

Swiss. 11:07 Mon Aug 21
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
Stuart Robson is talking about 1987. I think things have changed since then a little.

Alex G 10:42 Mon Aug 21
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
11MDE 10:27 Mon Aug 21

Avram Grant had won the Israeli league FOUR times before he became our manager.

11MDE 10:27 Mon Aug 21
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
Never employing a manager who has previously won a trophy shows just how flawed our DNA is.

JOHNNY V 10:24 Mon Aug 21
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
Manchester City are proof that you can change the DNA of a football club. However it took a new stadium to attract new billionaire owners and then years of investment to change the attitude of the changing room.

Crassus 9:25 Mon Aug 21
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
Surf'
Yes mate, but I like him for all that, bright bloke, well educated and was a fine footballer.
I imagine that he has a resentment that his career, predicted as a future England captain, was cut short and his subsequent coaching attempts have failed, and all at a time when players half his level earn enough in a year to negate the need to appear through the media for a living

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 9:16 Mon Aug 21
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
Does he? I didn't know that. I suppose I only pay attention to the West Ham stuff.

I suppose, then, we can conclude that his bitterness knows no bounds.

Crassus 9:11 Mon Aug 21
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
Surf
'Additionally, Stuart Robson is an Arsenal cunt who had a rotten time here as his career went down the toilet, and consequently hates us.'

Don't disagree but blime,y for an Arsenal cunt, he gives them feruosiously more stick than he ever does us

13 Brentford Rd 8:59 Mon Aug 21
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
Have thought about this for years and have concluded that it is because we are a London club situated in the least fashionable part of London, bigger than most but not as big as Spurs, Arse, Chelsea, Man U, Man City, Liverpool, Everton etc.
This means that whilst we can't attract the very best players, managers, owners, we do attract the best of the rest, the types who could be THE best but are flawed in some way, be it injury prone, wrong attitude, likes a drink or just not quite good enough.
We are an awkward sized club, we are already bigger than most and can not get bigger unless we could close the gap on the very best which would require a lot of ambition, money, brains and luck, but those types of owners want a Chelsea type brand or a smaller Hull type club where they can make an immediate noticable difference.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 8:48 Mon Aug 21
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
Do people not know what DNA is?

The club has underachieved through four completely different sets of owners and god knows how many managers. Any endemic bad practices that existed under one set of owners or managers have had ample opportunity to be eradicated by their successors.

As Alex V said below, the only thing about West Ham that can be remotely compared with the club's DNA is the supporters, and I would further agree with him, there's little wrong there.

Under the Cearns and then Brown, West Ham's problem used to be that we are a big club with a small club mentality. That isn't really the case now. I suspect most of our problems stem from the uncertainty of policy caused by being, like the Leeds and Newcastle mentioned below (and Wolves, Sheffield Wednesday, Portsmouth and a few more) a big club on the cusp of being, or with the potential to be, a very big club.

Additionally, Stuart Robson is an Arsenal cunt who had a rotten time here as his career went down the toilet, and consequently hates us.

Crassus 8:31 Mon Aug 21
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
205
I agree that Robson has something of a chip about us but would appear to have valid reason. He recieved dreadful medical treatment here resulting in the club saying he was finished. No wonder he sort a second opinion and it is no shock that he was able to resume playing.
One thing that has been in our DNA for years is an appalling medical set up and protraction of knocks into full on injury lay offs.

Any Old Iron 3:17 Sun Aug 20
I get that mate but it was viable, the new stands would have all been standing terraces and on field there would have been 4 WC winners and a tank alongside Sir Bobby.
Remember as a rear gunner in a pram Dad and his peer group banging on about it, it was a well discussed and open option
Regarding attendances, well I agree, even in 85/86 you could get in on walk up and some of those attendances in arguably the greatest season of my life, were lower than those of today would think, that said, I maintain that by then, if we had bought the players mentioned, success would have been ingrained from that 25 year prior period and history markedly different.

hammer205 11:03 Sun Aug 20
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
Whilst I agree to a certain extent havingvchanged owners players managers and now grounds nothing seems to change. However Robson has an axe to grind with us. I spoke to him many years back as I walked along the barking road when Coventry beat us
He called Bonzo a Cnut of a man because he wouldn't play him and said he was unfit which he disagreed with.
He also received independent treatment against the clubs wishes for his injuries

At the end of the day we have no level of expectation other than avoiding relegation which is negative in itself!!

gph 5:49 Sun Aug 20
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
I remember reading somewhere that Burnley, when they decided that the green kit they were wearing was unlucky, chose claret and blue, as they hoped to pick up some of the luck that Aston Villa were supposedly enjoying.

So
a) Villa were the "lucky club" of the era;
b) how wrong could they be about claret and blue...

Billy Blagg 5:42 Sun Aug 20
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
I don't agree with those who say the problem is in the present and very much believe there is something tangible in the DNA theory. Of course, talk of a club having some sort of 'life' is palpable nonsense and that's why the argument continues. There's something in it nonetheless.

Most football supporters memories are very short but, if you include those here who have followed the club for decades, and those with stories of their own passed down by Grandfathers and older parents, the tales about WHU regularly cocking up are pretty legendary. The problem is that - in the second decade of the 21st Century - people believe there are answers and sometimes there simply aren't.

As a anti-West Ham argument look at Arsenal. They barely bugger things up and even when they do, things still fall in their lap. New? No, they were knows as 'Lucky Arsenal' back in the 1930's, nothing has changed and nothing ever will. I don't know why this club is like it is but I've long since ceased to believe it will change and every passing season and every crazy decision just makes my belief stronger.

Sven Roeder 3:21 Sun Aug 20
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
He can be involved in negotiating amounts and clauses and payment plans because he has that business experience.
What I object to his him having any say whatsoever in what players we try and buy.
He knows nothing about picking the right players.
That should be the responsibility of a football person working with the manager,
Noone on the board knows ANYTHING about football. That should be rectified.

Any Old Iron 3:17 Sun Aug 20
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
Willtell 9:47 Sun Aug 20
Good post.

Crassus 12:22 Sun Aug 20

Have to take you up on your third point. As great as it would have been to have completely redeveloped the Boleyn to a 60k ground, not only would it have been pointless, as we rarely filled a 38k capacity, but it would have been completely out of the reach of the club to achieve such a huge development. In those days there was hardly any club that could have considered such a huge financial investment, least of all one owned by the Cearns family.
But I remember reading a report of one of the first home games after the new east stand had opened where the reporter said "West Ham's play was as unambitious as the very unimpressive new stand". When I compared it with the big cantilevered stand at Hillsborough that I'd sat in four years earlier, it was truly pathetic.

Alex V 2:45 Sun Aug 20
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
I don't mind Sullivan being involved with transfers - he's got good experience of that sort of horse-trading. What it seems he might need is better guidance from those around him.

Willtell 12:57 Sun Aug 20
Re: DNA of West Ham - flawed????
I absolutely agree with that Alex. Pressure needs putting on Sullivan to stop playing real life Football Manager. Also he is looking increasingly unwell.

Stress leads to heavy drinking and a puffy face and big bags under the eyes give it away. We'll miss him when he's gone but he's a fcuking nuisance while he thinks he's doing a good job. He isn't! He's an amateur and making a fist of it.

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