WHO Poll
Q: 2017/18 Brighton (h)
a. If e can stop being the masters of our own downfall we should take 3 points, win
75%
  
b. We seem too flaky at the moment and don't expect an easy game, draw
8%
  
c. We can't put teams away and have a soft underbelly, lose
10%
  
d. Did you know that Eurovision 1974 was held in Brighton and launched ABBA onto the world stage with Waterloo
5%
  
e. I love Friday Night Football, it gives me the chance to show everyone down the local just how big a West Ham nut I am, hat, scarf, shirt, you name it I'll be wearing it
2%
  



PwoperNaughtyButNot 8:33 Thu Aug 24
West Ham Retirement Home
There has always been this thought that West Ham is a cushty number for players on their last legs looking for one last contract. When we sign the over 30s there is always a level of disappointment or suspicion.

Is it well founded or have we actually been pretty successful with buying older players and getting our monies worth?

I think there are more successes than not when you look at the Winterburns, Di Canios, Stuart Pearces and Peter Shiltons but what do you think?

List them good and bad

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

RBshorty 8:29 Sun Aug 27
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
Any Old Iron 8:21

Spot on. Trouble is. Anyone in between costs money. And that ain't in the SPIVS plans if they can help it.

Any Old Iron 8:21 Sun Aug 27
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
How was Shilton a success when he never put in an appearance?

The truth is though that our club are still a soft touch. Mark Noble is 30, yet he has a contract running for three more years with an option to extend it to four, taking him to 34.

On top of that we have Ginge at 34, Fonte at 33 who has two years left on his contract and Zabaleta at 32 also with 2 years to go.
And to make matters worse they gave a three and a half year contract to the pitiful Snodgrass.

The trouble with our weirdo of a Chairman is that we lurch from one policy (take a punt on quite a lot of cheapy unknowns) to another (pay quite a lot of money for experience).
And he gets it wrong on both counts the useless porno dwarf.

Boycie 5:03 Sun Aug 27
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
Liam Brady. Class personified

Sven Roeder 12:18 Sun Aug 27
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
Could you keep the noise down you lot ... our 70yo fitness coach is taking his Sunday morning nap.

JayeMPee 12:14 Sun Aug 27
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
I think they are let out of the retirement home to play, Bilic too.

Alex V 11:20 Sun Aug 27
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
>>> Whilst this means you may get 1 or 2 seasons of quality you may have 1 or 2 more that you have to write off as you can't offload and they can't be considered starters.

The big negative of that is FFP. We just cannot have useless players sitting on the sidelines because we gave out longer contracts - it directly affects our capacity to have other players because there's only so much wages we can offer. And generally veterans cost big wages. I think we're seeing that this Summer - the club hasn't spent that much but is stuffed with older players on big wages so actually can't buy many more players. We have a senior squad of 20 out of 25 because we're overpaying on wages.

PwoperNaughtyButNot 11:08 Sun Aug 27
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
From what I'm seeing to capture these players you have to offer them more and longer than their current clubs. Whilst this means you may get 1 or 2 seasons of quality you may have 1 or 2 more that you have to write off as you can't offload and they can't be considered starters.

At that stage in life they would be less inclined to up sticks and go on loan or move for less money but the promise of more game time. They aren't stalling their careers by sitting in the stiffs, moreover they are seeing it out.

Risk vs benefit means you can't get average players but the better the player the more £ you write off in the final years.

Ronald_antly 10:38 Sun Aug 27
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
West Ham United is where football careers go to die.

Alex V 3:54 Fri Aug 25
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
I don't think it's anywhere near 50/50. All the players who disappear or drop down to lower leagues or quietly retire are easily forgettable - we remember the few exceptions or the elite players who can still contribute with limitations. One thing is definitely true - fewer and fewer clubs want to buy players of advancing age, because they're all realising that physical decline leaves them with an asset that is depreciating. Nobody with any sense wants that in a player.

Pub Bigot 2:17 Fri Aug 25
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
Alex, you could argue that players are fitter and sharper then ever and the balance of success passed 30s is around 50/50 in terms of success.

The Premier League is physically demanding, but some players really look after themselves, which is why longevity among the more successful and elite players lasts much longer e.g. Scholes, Giggs, Terry and Lampard. On the flip side, you could say that Noble is declining, though I don't personally believe that to be true.

Darby_ 12:44 Fri Aug 25
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
Winterburn was pretty good before that final season. It's a bit harsh to judge him on his last season since we'd supposedly already bought a replacement for him in Labant, who turned out to be a dud.

Infidel 12:38 Fri Aug 25
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
I wouldn't put Winterburn in a list of 'successes'.

In our relegation season 2002-3 he was woeful. Replacing him with Rufus Brevett was a critical piece in our revival in the second half of the season which almost kept us up.

Recruiting older players is a hit and miss business. Some prove to be worth their weight in gold - look at Zlatan last season for Man Utd. He scored more goals then the rest of the team put together.

I would say we have signed quite a few older players who turned out well - but far too many have turned out to be duds, their best days long behind them.

But then younger players can turn out to be duds too. Probably the ratio of successes to failures is about the same.

Alex V 11:40 Fri Aug 25
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
Yep players can still be useful in decline. As we've found so many times. A few can still be brilliant. Others have to reinvent themselves around their limitations.

Obviously there are exceptions, but generally I see the top teams are buying 25 and under players, who still have capacity to improve and will play out their contracts in peak condition. They can afford to do that and it's the right approach.

Our current approach is pretty much the opposite. We are buying players either in decline or near it. Sullivan has admitted it's not a good long-term strategy. In a year a significant bunch of our highly paid players under long contracts will have declined. Some a bit, some a lot, as we know it can be different for each player. I think it's an indefensible policy and pretty much guarantees that we are going backwards year on year. The policy simply needs to completely change, to give us a chance in a few years time of actually being able to build towards something, once we've cleared out the dead wood which might take a couple of seasons or more. It's a gloomy picture but that's what the club's done, it's a terrible mistake imo.

Willtell 3:23 Thu Aug 24
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
I checked a list from 2016 and do you mean exceptions like like John Terry, Gareth Barry, Dirk Kuyt, Patrice Evra, Totti, Buffon, John O'Shea, Peter Crouch, Shea Given, Ryan Giggs was 40 when he retired. Even we have 34 years old James Collins MOM yesterday and before him keepers Les Sealey & Jaaskalinen was about 40. David James went until then. So did Kevin Phillips, van der Saar, Lehman, Freidel etc.

It is not so exceptional and obviously keepers can last longer. I think it has more to do with it being some players have enough money to retire and can't accept a lesser role. Or their clubs let them go too soon because they have promising youngsters coming through.

I used to look at Patrice Evra running up the left flank for Man Utd and think he'd wear himself out early but after them he did 3 years at Juventus and now is with Marseille...

Terrywait 3:18 Thu Aug 24
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
A lot of players being listed weren't really 'that' old when they signed

Alex V 3:09 Thu Aug 24
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
Man Utd finished 6th last season btw.

Alex V 3:05 Thu Aug 24
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
And, as I suggested, even Ibrahimovic only got a year's deal at Man Utd.

Alex V 3:04 Thu Aug 24
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
And Sheringham did great for us at an even older age. There will always be exceptions.

Willtell 3:02 Thu Aug 24
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
Yes Alex. Of course Zlatan Ibrahimovic proves that's true...

Alex V 2:56 Thu Aug 24
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
Good topic. As the physical demands of the game get ever greater I think this is becoming perhaps the major problem at the club. I think what you class as a veteran is a lower age now than it was in the past. For most positions I think you're in serious decline by age 29, or perhaps just past 30 for keepers and centre-backs.

I have no problem with getting veterans for a year. You get their experience, there's no long-term drain on finances, and maybe you learn from what they bring to the training ground etc. Di Michele and Franco were two excellent veterans we got a great year out of. Someone mentioned Winterburn who did great for a while, but when his legs completely went in his last year it left us in a real mess and I think contributed greatly to our relegation that season. Veterans are great, but they should be an extra bonus addition to the squad, not the core of it.

greenie1 11:33 Thu Aug 24
Re: West Ham Retirement Home
Syd Puddefoot.

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