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Q: Manuel Pellegrini
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Queens Fish Bar 7:55 Wed Jan 3
Tax and the political economy.
Interesting and get some good debate too.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

King Marlon 4:39 Sat Jan 6
Re: Tax and the political economy.
After8 wrote...

Re: Tax and the political economy.
"Tax the rich"
you've just given corporations a tax cut
don't privatize the nhs"
yes you are so that you have to spend record levels on the nhs just to stand still.

BRANDED 1:09 Sat Jan 6
Re: Tax and the political economy.
The point is. The excess capital goes somewhere. All those trillions of dollars need to have a home and countries with apparent wealth are the favourite places. Debt can create immense wealth. However, the world grows about 2-3% a year and has done on average for a long time so the debt just helps pay the growth. Its meaningless. The money cant just be taken and put into China. They have trillions to stick in us. Its one huge merry go round of effluent.

Mex Martillo 12:45 Sat Jan 6
Re: Tax and the political economy.
Neilale , I strongly disagree with PL players getting paid so much. They get paid so much because we are massively overcharged to watch them. I think most agree we are over charged for tickets or TV. Some even stop watching something they enjoy becuase they feel ripped off. Many just watch “illegally” thinking it is not really illegal it is just avoiding being ripped off.
Something should be done.
But not much support or debate to do something:
http://www.westhamonline.net/forum_flat.php?8928992||1||

Willtell, yes, I actually wish I had stopped posting... strange addiction

Hammer and Pickle 11:41 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
With you there neil though it's not the inflation as such but but the demand pulling it that ought to be providing the incentive to move out of parking money in sovereign debt and into the real economy.

But then again, with things like Brexit and Trump around, there remain plenty of disincentives out there as well...

neilalex 11:07 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
It's not as simple as that After8. It really depends on what you spend the borrowed money on.

Ironically with negative real interest rates it is higher inflation that is the biggest disincentive to the rich just parking their money in sovereign debt. With yield curves as they are Inflation will actually drive some of that money into more risk based assets and therefore the 'real' economy. For the money that doesn't move inflation acts effectively as a tax in reducing the issuer's debt.

However, on the issue of debt per se I personally would be investing heavily in infrastructure at this time, particularly infrastructure designed to boost long term productivity. I wouldn't be especially worried about more debt with a 30 year gilt yield at less than 2%. It's no different to business investment in the sense that you invest in order to generate a higher tax take as opposed to profits.At the moment money is absurdly cheap in historical terms.

Trouble is, of course, that virtually all politicians of every persuasion are cunts, and only think about political expediency as opposed to what might actually be good in the long term.

Mike Oxsaw 11:05 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
After8 10:49 Fri Jan 5

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Our children & grandchildren get to cover the debt (otherwise why the fuck have them?).

WE get the ice cream. NOW!!!

After8 10:49 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
It's like debating a child. The more debt we have, the more we pay in interest, the less we have for schools and hospitals.

Mike Oxsaw 10:29 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
True, but if a country gets in too much hock with "the rich" they can start wielding an unwelcome influence on the way that nation's government acts - drafting laws, for instance, that look innocuous but actually favour those very same rich in some way.

Plus, the same situation allows the money lenders to threaten to call in/not extend loans if they don't get their way.

You don't need to conquer a nation (with bombs & bullets), just have control over it's wealth and money supply and it will do your bidding.

BRANDED 8:17 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
The rich still need to put their money somewhere. If not here then some place else.

Mike Oxsaw 8:16 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
Nope, but we do have our very own Gold full of shit.

Mike Oxsaw 8:15 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
BRANDED 7:58 Fri Jan 5

There IS a 3rd option - do without until you can afford to pay for it.

BRANDED 8:15 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
What? No ships full of gold?

Mike Oxsaw 8:14 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
It doesn't actually "move", they just exchange information on title and ownership.

Much of it doesn't actually exist in any physical sense.

BRANDED 7:58 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
You have two options. Borrow it from them or tax them. If you tax them they send it abroad. If you borrow it you just let them invest in the country in a way that allows them to feel like they have a stake.

You might know that on any one day $10Tn moves around the globe in the top investment banks. Don't fret yourself.

Mike Oxsaw 7:53 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
BRANDED 7:28 Fri Jan 5

So forever increasing interest payments to the rich will solve the nations problems, will it?

Please explain.

BRANDED 7:28 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
Debt is not the issue you pillock. Debt is held either by the bank of England or the rich who are happy for the interest they get.

Fucking hell no wonder we're fucked by these numpties.

After8 5:13 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
"Tax the rich"

We are

"don't privatize the nhs"

We aren't

It is a fact that the "rich" are paying more in tax under the conservatives in any year than under Labour.

It is a fact that the labour government signed dodgy pfi deals and brought privatisation into the nhs while the coalition's health reforms stopped further creep.

There's always going to be more demand for services. People will always support pay rises for nurses. The challenge we have as a country isn't low taxation, it's our debt. The more we spend, the more debt we have, the more money spent on debt interest payments.

Mike Oxsaw 1:58 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
Queens Fish Bar 1:27 Fri Jan 5

OK - I accept that, but by not having control of one of the arms they need to balance (crypto-currencies), they basically have no say in where to place the fulcrum to achieve that balance.

As has been said on here many times - they can't ramp tax up much further than what it is (not only will the highest payers simply fuck off, the rest will simply stop spending and the whole economy will tank).

If what they spend has no path through the UK tax system, using crypto-currencies managed on non-UK servers, for instance, buying produce through suppliers located outside the UK, the tax take is further reduced.

If they want to increase tax take they need to encourage people to generate more wealth - ALL people.

Some on here seem to want to limit who cam earn that wealth, how much they are allowed to keep of that wealth, and how they can spend what of it they are allowed to keep.

Queens Fish Bar 1:27 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
Mike Oxsaw 2:55 Thu Jan 4

The government controls it by balancing it with taxation.

I don't have a clear vision (does anyone?) on where blockchain and cryptocurrencies will take us.

Its exciting due to the emergent, somewhat messy, potential disruption of the current financial system, as well as make a bit of money speculating on cc.

BRANDED 12:47 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
They play football?

neilalex 12:31 Fri Jan 5
Re: Tax and the political economy.
But Mex, a lot of PL footballers earn more than them, and you've been screaming them on tonight? What's the difference?

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