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Chigwell 3:24 Wed Apr 3
Hillsborough jury discharged
I predicted that David Duckenfield would not be convicted of manslaughter. Now after a long trial costing God knows what, the jury could not agree on a verdict. Unfortunately due to media pressure the CPS has decided to go for a retrial. The bloke made a mistake 30 years ago, that's true, but it cannot be in the public interest to continue with the prosecution.

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martyboy 1:21 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
Im with Vexed on this, scummy child killing bastards to a man.
Bloody hate the fake paddy wannabees!!!!

terry-h 1:15 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
Fucking hell, are the scousers going to round up the jury for a public flogging now.
I can see another 30 years of weeping and wailing ahead.

mashed in maryland 1:11 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
Oh, and for the record, as a group I fucking *HATE* Liverpool fans.

mashed in maryland 1:10 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
Sven

Not to my knowledge, but that's mostly to do with how militant and partisan the vocal minority are, and partly tribal. And as I said it'd probably be exactly the same as if it was us. For example, the mere suggestion on here that West Ham fans could have been involved in anything similar has got me absolutely slaughtered before; to some, we can do no wrong, the end. This is partly why its such a touchy subject: giving an inch (at least publicly) would be seen as "taking their (plod, Thatcher, whatever) side". Although its a subject you'd do best to avoid when speaking to one, most I've spoken to seem to be far more willing to just treat it as a tragedy remember the victims and move on.

Think of how a Leeds fan would react if you were to suggest that Leeds fans were partly to blame for that night in Turkey. Think of what would happen to a former player if they suggested it on TV.

Not saying its right, its just how it is.

Sven Roeder 12:36 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
Mashed
I can’t say I have ever heard one Liverpool can say ‘you know what WE have to take some share of the blame as fans for what happened at Hillsborough’.
Have any ex players or any of the multitude of ex Liverpool media representatives ever said anything like that in public?

Mart O 12:12 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
Justice for the 39, etc, etc...

Vexed 11:20 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
Liverpool fans are scum. Look at history. The scummiest there is. They killed their own, fucking kids and everything. Absolutely down to them. Stop defending the disgusting cunts.

Mike Oxsaw 11:19 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
I suspect that had that gate not been opened there would still have been deaths & injuries, but this time outside the ground, away from the glare of television cameras.

The police would then have got it in the neck for NOT opening the gate, contributing to those deaths & injuries.

The root cause, as has been said, too many fans, not enough adequate space.

mashed in maryland 11:19 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
"I think we (and just about any other 'race' of people) would have the humility to accept our fault in what happened."


Forgot to mention its probably best not to take the rantings of the militant vocal core as an accurate representation of absolutely 100% of all Liverpool fans/mickeys in general. And once again if it happened to "us" (i was 3 at the time) there would definitely be a similar core of us who would behave the same and refuse to have our side blamed.

As I've said a zillion times most up here are much more pragmatic in their view of it; its still a sore subject (and one often used to goad a reaction) and that's just how it is, and it'd be no different if it was geordies, mancs, or cockneys or anyone else than if it was scousers. We were all scum back then and to many (and often each other) we still are.

Russ of the BML 11:17 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
On The Ball 10:58 Fri Nov 29

They are basically the saying the legal system in this country is broken. But that's because that system did not give them the result that they wanted.

But that same legal system has allowed them 30 years of legal process under which to get to this point.

And how can you say a legal system in a country is messed up when a jury comes to a 9 over 1 result?

I also bet the same people at some point in their lives have benefited from the legal system in this country. You can't criticise something just because it doesn't work in your favour.

But, then again, and this is where I lose some sympathy for them. They seem to think, for some reason, deserve preferential treatment. And during this whole case there have been times where the 'whitewash' they have got is pretty distasteful.

Sven Roeder 11:10 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
It’s also easy to look at the police behaviour through today’s eyes where they are more often dealing with a popcorn munching tourist crowd resembling a cinema audience.
A lot of the police reaction was a response, rightly or wrongly , to the behaviour of fans.
The first away game I ever went to was the 1-1 draw at The Den where McAvennie scored. This was AFTER Hillsborough and because of the scenes outside the police happily got all the West Ham fans inside the stadium so that we ended up with 8,000 on a terrace meant for 5,000. There wasn’t an entrance through a tunnel into a dangerously crowded section so we all lived to tell the tale.

Russ of the BML 11:08 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
Alfs 2:23 Fri Nov 29

Excellent post. It's ok being sensible now and taking a health and safety view of it. But, as we all know, the excitement and the atmosphere would have contributed to their actions and all of us would have done the same.

You aren't going to go to a FA Cup semi-final with all your mates and be the only one sitting in the pub during the game and then when all your mates come back you say "I didn't go in as it looked a bit chaotic". Anyone to suggest that is either stupid or is taking hindsight and pragmatism to its extreme level.

There were fans there with no tickets and fans with fake tickets. Just too many supporters there.

And there wasn't the right crowd control outside. The gate to the entrance of the stand that was already full was left open. And then what lit the fuse was when the order to open the side gate outside to let them all in.

Then afterwards the emergency services couldn't cope. Access to the and from the dead and injured was hampered. The police's response to the tragedy was wrong.

As others said, it was a perfect storm.

But, should all of the blame be put down to one man? In my humble opinion, no way.

On The Ball 10:58 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
On the radio this morning was one of the mothers complaining that there was "something wrong with the justice system in this country" - it was a jury, love. Aside from putting the families at the head of this industry - sorry, cause - in charge, I'm not sure what she wants.

Then on the telly was a father complaining that it's "always in the media" - astounding. They have zero self-awareness.

I'd never say I don't think we'd have done similar or that I wouldn't have done similar - I was 9 at the time and hadn't been to a football match so I've got no idea. But the difference is I think we (and just about any other 'race' of people) would have the humility to accept our fault in what happened.

Sven Roeder 10:51 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
I think there is more of an attitude today of refusing to accept any blame and people argue black is white (or PC equivalent) on any issue to ‘support’ their side.

The difference is a little bit like in schools these days. In the olden days if a kid misbehaved the THREAT of informing your parents was enough as you knew they would come and back the teacher and you’d be in the shit.
An ex girlfriend of mine who admonished some feral scrote who was acting like a shit had the parents wanting to punch her and refusing to accept any suggestion that their kid was in the wrong.

Perhaps as a compromise the rest of England could leave Liverpool as part of Brexit?

Bungo 10:09 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
General point that has occured to me today.

Whenever there is a trial involving friends/family etc with vested interest, they are generally either 'devastated' or 'delighted' at the verdict, depending on whether THEY believe the accused is guilty or not.

Does this mean that these people have no faith in the legal system, bearing in mind that in other cases when they might be the accused, they could be seeking a very different result?

Also, do you think people will stop discussing Brexit or Hillsborough first? I suspect I won't live long enough to find out.

Block 9:22 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
The issue for me is that the fans are refusing to point the finger of blame at everyone else without looking at the impact they caused.

I get that people wanted to get to the game, however surely if you turn up and see the utter chaos that has been shown with people climbing over the turnstiles/gates etc surely you'd have a bit of common sense and think "fuck that, I'm going to the pub".

There was a massive lack of common sense, on all sides. But the way the fans just refuse to acknowledge they are also partly responsible is why people call them scumbags etc.

Sven Roeder 8:41 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
I would hope most West Ham fans would admit that ticketless fans forcing their way in CONTRIBUTED to the deaths.
Obviously they didn’t intend to kill the genuine fans who arrived early and were at the front against the fences but to paint all the Liverpool fans as innocent bystanders is and has always been nonsense.
That said the police were incompetent, and then criminal when they tried to cover things up, and the ground officials were also culpable in the management of the stadium.

mashed in maryland 7:24 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
Alfs 2:23 Fri Nov 29

Spot on.

And you can bet that if it was West Ham that day instead of them that there would be a very vocal minority of fans who wouldn't let it drop either.

mashed in maryland 7:24 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
Alfs 2:23 Fri Nov 29

Spot on.

And you can bet that if it was West Ham that day instead of them that there would be a very vocal minority of fans who wouldn't let it drop either.

Alfs 2:23 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
For me, it was a culmination of factors that all came together and the (waiting for) disaster happened. To put all of the blame on one man would have been wrong - even if he is/was a bit of a cunt.

Blaming the fans? Well, if I had a fake ticket to a West Ham FA cup semi-final I'd have run through those gates too - as would of all of you. You're not going to be thinking ''Hmmm, they might not have good health and safety here, so I think I'll give it a miss".

They weren't scum, they were football fans, just like us.

yngwies Cat 2:03 Fri Nov 29
Re: Hillsborough jury discharged
Wearing me own tin hat on this. If my boy had trotted of to watch a game and never came back, I would fight to the grave to find out what the fuck happened.

Alright it's them, and those fuckers always seemed to forget
What they did a few years back..Always forgotten.

It's fuckin sad, and this far on, they are never going to get
Case, z

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