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Briano 9:07 Fri Nov 27
Dubois v Joyce
Hearn v Warren..

An intriguing contest, Dubois a natural probably edges it as favourite..Joyce mechanical but equally effective, both heavy hitters with either hand.

Who would you put your money on ?

Replies - Newest Posts First (Show In Chronological Order)

marty feldman 6:43 Wed Dec 2
Re: Dubois v Joyce
Tyson polarises opinion like no other . between 86_88 he was outstanding . But as soon as he sacked Rooney as trainer and employed yes men instead it was always going to end in tears naseem hamed made the same mistake.

zebthecat 11:26 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
Mace66 9:21 Tue Dec 1

I am with you there, he is a rarity in that he went on the people who beat him. He knew he made a mistake by not preparing well enough Rahman and made up for it and then some.

Both my parents are/were eye medics and an orbital floor blowout fracture can be horrible. Basically your eyeball is pushed out of its socket into the cheek sinus. My Mum had some horror stories from squash ball injuries (squash balls are the perfect size to cause that).

southbankbornnbred 11:24 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
He's referred to as 'Roid Jones Jnr by some people inside boxing.

southbankbornnbred 11:18 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
TM - Jones Jnr was a doper who, unsurprisingly, was never as strong or good after he failed a test and had the boxing boards looking at him closely.

One of the biggest scandals in boxing during that era was how Jones' doping did not become more of a scandal.

He tested five or six times over the limit for an anabolic steroid - which would give you a BIG advantage in terms of power - and barely got a slap on the wrist. It got covered up at the time and the issue only came out years later.

The IBF didn't want Jones banned and so never asked him to perform a second, follow-up test - possibly because they feared he'd fail again and HAVE to get a ban.

Jones lost three out of the first four fights he had once everybody knew he had failed a test (the news emerged in Aug 2003 - although the failed test was in 2000) and the boxing boards were on his case. What does that tell you?

Roy Jones: doper. Couldn't care less what anybody says about his talent after that. He's not in the mix, because he cheated.

southbankbornnbred 11:02 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
Mace/Eerie/TM - all spot on.

The supposed American experts barely look past the Yanks until they get down to the lighter weights.

Lewis' record is considerably better than Holyfield's and Tyson's in terms of wins/losses - but also, and more importantly, in terms of the quality of the people he beat and beat well. Including Holyfield and Tyson.

People like Bowe ran scared of Lewis.

Certainly the best heavyweight since Ali/Foreman.

Takashi Miike 10:15 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
spot on. go on any youtube post about super middleweights and it will be full of yanks slagging off calzaghe. funniest is when they quote the roy jones fight, saying jones was past his best yet disregarding the fact joe was also at the end because of his career. they are cunts

Eerie Descent 10:03 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
Lewis doesn't get in to any Top 10's written by US 'experts'

Because they are biased cunts.

Mace66 9:35 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
southbankbornnbred 8:03 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce

Once he started to believe in himself (which was an issue early on),

I think the way he dismantled Gary Mason who was 30 odd and 0 at the time was a key point in his career.

Mace66 9:21 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
Yea, Lewis definitely the best of his generation and would have lived with any of the top heavies in history. A class act.

southbankbornnbred 8:03 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
I agree - I think Lewis was one of the best heavyweights of all time.

The only real blemish on Lewis's record was the loss to Rahman. The KO defeat against McCall was just a one-punch wonder that can - and does - happen to any heavyweight when they climb in the ring with another 18 stone bloke throwing bombs (most get away with that sort of thing happening in sparring). Even though Lewis should always have beaten McCall, you can forgive a shock one-punch thing like that. That's the heavyweight division and why it is different to almost every other division.

The only time Lewis really disappointed me was that night in South Africa when he clearly hadn't trained properly, hadn't anticipated the effect of altitude and was breathing heavily after two rounds. You could see the Rahman knock-out coming - Lewis hadn't applied himself for the first and only time in his career (wasn't he busy filming Oceans 11 or something?).

But every time Lewis applied himself (which was most of the time), he generally wiped the floor with good boxers - and several very good boxers.

A top, top heavyweight, Lennox. Had everything, really: quick feet, quick hands, heavy punching power and a good, strategic mind. Once he started to believe in himself (which was an issue early on), he became the don of that era. He took Holyfield apart in those two fights - the draw was a joke decision.

He'd be in my top three or four heavies of all time, alongside Ali, Marciano and maybe Louis/Foreman.

I keep seeing lists from supposed experts which put Holyfield and Tyson in the top ten, but no Lewis on the list. How they are there and Lewis is not is beyond me. He was considerably better than both - and proved it.

Council Scum 5:11 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
Tyson avoided Lewis, he even paid him off to take a lesser fight, Bowe swerved Lewis his whole career.

For me, Lewis in his prime, beats nearly everyone in that top 20.

Council Scum 5:10 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce

It's simple. Name one fighter in that top 20 that Tyson fought when they were in their prime and beat?

Smith and Tucker were top 10 fighters of that time, nothing more nothing less.

southbankbornnbred 2:24 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
I'm not one of these Tyson fanattics, though - and do think he was generally bettered by better boxers. Particularly once heavyweights went from being around the 16 stone mark to towards 18 stone of muscle. Tyson was on the smaller end of the heavyweight spectrum throughout and gave up a lot of hard weight and big reaches.

It's all about opinions, of course, but in my opinion Lewis would have beaten him in their primes (as well as towards the end of their careers, as happened). That jab of Lewis would have cut him to ribbons.

southbankbornnbred 2:18 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
Tyson also beat James 'Bonecrusher' Smith in his prime which, as Bruno discovered, was never an easy bout.

Smith may not have been the most skilful boxer - but he was as hard as nails and had the concentration and mental toughness of a SAS member! Made of fecking concrete, that bloke, as Frank found out.

southbankbornnbred 2:12 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
Basically, after 50 fights at professional level, Tucker had only lost to Tyson and Lennox. He'd beaten decent heavies - including Buster Douglas, Oliver McCall etc. He was better than that group of fighters.

So it's difficult to say that he was mere 'flat track' fodder for Tyson in 1987.

Foreman described Tucker as 'too tough' to fight in his comeback. He famously said: "Mama didn't raise no fool. I'm not fighting him."

southbankbornnbred 2:07 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
In fairness, Tyson did beat some very good heavyweights when they were in their prime - including Tony Tucker.

But the interesting thing about the Tucker fight is that it went the distance and, for the first time, people realised that Tyson was a human being who could get hurt.

Tucker in his pomp was a canny, strategic fighter. Awkward and compact, he made you work for victories and had held the IBF title in 1987. He hadn't lost a single fight (even amatuer) for eight years before the bout against Tyson.

His career only went downhill after the Tyson loss - because he had taken a two year-break after that fight. In his prime, he was certainly a better fighter than most heavyweights of that era. So that's a good scalp in Tyson's win column, no doubt.

Lee Trundle 1:07 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce
"he never beat one world class fighter in their prime"

The first Bruno fight?

(I always have fond memories of boxing during this time, so I'm grasping at straws here!)

Council Scum 12:38 Tue Dec 1
Re: Dubois v Joyce

I've always found Tyson a flat track bully and he never beat one world class fighter in their prime, he lost to anyone decent or who wasn't intimidated by him. The real hardman was always Holyfield.

Have a look at this top 20 greatest heavies. See where Tyson is and what Bill Caplan say's, he's spot on


Lee Trundle 5:28 Mon Nov 30
Re: Dubois v Joyce
Yeah, I thought it was pretty disrespectful to Joyce that they were only really concerned about talking about Dubois in the interviews after with both boxers and Warren.

Golden Oldie 5:08 Mon Nov 30
Re: Dubois v Joyce
It's poor Frank Warren I feel most sorry for.

Dubois really looked out of his comfort zone within a few rounds his face shown the distress he was in, so he didn't pass the poker face test, Daniel didn't look comfortable from the first punch Joyce landed really, just like Dubois did to Gorman.

Frank post match seemed more concerned with how Dubois dealt with adversity the first time he had to come up against it.
The kid's only around 22/23 and if he continues [Warren let slip post fight he wasn't so sure about Daniel anymore] will learn more from that Joyce fight than anything he faced before.
Seems a good honest bloke so hope he comes back strong.

That was the best Joyce I've seen so far, he even used some head movement which probably fucked with Dubois and his corners heads more than anything else, the bloke has been around the top end of the amateurs for a while and fucked with Usyk/Yoko etc and shown he can hang with the best.

I was listening to the shouty Teddy Atlas show where he was explaining how with Tyson he knew early on their game plan only worked when the other guy was terrified of Mike as he reckoned he always knew Mike would fold under any real resistance, Teddy reckoned Tyson was always a bully who couldn't take returning fire.

That's the trouble when you're a big hitter used to catching most opponents clean once and having them running away to survive for the rest of the fight, basically a bully, one day you'll have to face a monster who hits back just as hard and only then they find out what they're about.

A smashed eye socket fucked poor Kell Brook after taking one of fast car Eddie's "Daring To Dream"™ challenges (or taking a shitload of cash at the last minute to bail out a failed Eubanks jr/GGG contract), not helped by being immediately thrown in a fight against Errol Spence Jr who broke the other eye in the very next fight.

gregan 4:01 Mon Nov 30
Re: Dubois v Joyce

Joyce v Usyk

7 years ago. Great 5 rounder.

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