Keep dreaming 6:18 Sun Sep 18
Moyes Out
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Posted the same last year. Nothing has changed, except win don't win matches anymore.
I'm fed up, we can do much better
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
swindon hammer
2:10 Tue Nov 28
Re: Moyes Out
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Willtell,
Anything football related From the 70s/80s/90s I can reel off by memory for most clubs.
I was obsessed by football when I was younger and would watch and read anything. With age I am losing a lot of things but my memory isn’t one of them!
My point stands though.
Even taking Moyes out of the equation we are never going to constantly finish in the top 5 and regularly qualify for the champions league unless we get near unlimited funds like a Chelsea or Man City have done.
No other club has done that without those unlimited funds or as Miike implied an unfair advantage.
It’s possible on occasion but not consistently.
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Manuel
1:40 Tue Nov 28
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Willtell - Very fair point that, the fella's an absolute authority on them.
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Takashi Miike
1:39 Tue Nov 28
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"I wonder how Chelsea & Man City did that?!!"
clearly by ignoring/raping the FFP rules. the west london cunts are now lining up the napoli forward for £120m
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Willtell
1:38 Tue Nov 28
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Did you look all that up swindon? Only I’m a bit worried as to how well you know Spurs?
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swindon hammer
1:28 Tue Nov 28
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They didn’t play in the CL before Levy because they didn’t have 4 spaces for English teams available back then.
They would have qualified 4 or 5 times back in the 80s if that rule was in place then.
As for the 90s yes they were a bit of a joke at times but they still won 2 cups in that decade.
Expectations were huge under Venables when they broke the British transfer record to sign Gazza and later Gary Lineker and they were huge again when they brought in Klinsmann and Dumitrescu to play alongside Barmby, Anderton & Sheringham.
Even backtracking let’s not forget how big the signings of Ardiles & Villa were in the late 70s.
All those periods and signings were with the expectation that they would compete with the best.
The expectation has always been huge and their fans have expected them to compete at the top.
As you said they have always been a big glamour club and that is a big advantage to them in attracting managers and players. We aren’t at that level as a name or brand.
The only clubs that have been able to break into that “Big Glamour club” category (Spurs, Man Utd, Liverpool & Arsenal) over the past 20 years and regularly qualify for the CL are Chelsea and Man City.
I wonder how Chelsea & Man City did that?!!
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Russ of the BML
1:23 Tue Nov 28
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Yes - Spurs are cunts.
Something we agree on.
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BRANDED
1:15 Tue Nov 28
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We are the second winners of the European Conference Cup. All the future winners of it will celebrate like Mourinho, Moyes and the the fans when they win it. Spurs are just cunts and always will be.
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Russ of the BML
12:47 Tue Nov 28
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swindon hammer 12:27 Tue Nov 28
Spurs average league position under Levy is 5th. The highest being 2nd and the lowest being 8th. In the 25 years before Levy there average league position was 10th with the highest 4th and lowest 15th (on three occasions).
Before Levy they only ever played in UEFA cup. Under Levy they are regularly in CL (although I concede its easier to get into than traditional European Cup.
Yes, Spurs have always been a big, glamour club (although through the 90's they were a bit of a joke at times and we regularly beat them). And I know they've always been financially backed.
But to say expectations haven't been raised under Levy is ridiculous. Its plain and obvious they have. My Spurs mates will support that too. Yes, it may be expectation to the point of sometimes being deluded, but its expectation none the less.
And that is where we need to be aiming for. Average league position of 5th and qualifying for CL regularly. And, as a club, we have the foundation to do that. It's just that we have a board that settles for mediocre and a manager that settles for mediocre. And both board and manager think we should be grateful.
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Russ of the BML
12:46 Tue Nov 28
Re: Moyes Out
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swindon hammer 12:27 Tue Nov 28
Spurs average league position under Levy is 5th. The highest being 2nd and the lowest being 8th. In the 25 years before Levy there average league position was 10th with the highest 4th and lowest 15th (on three occasions).
Before Levy they only ever played in UEFA cup. Under Levy they are regularly in CL (although I concede its easier to get into than traditional European Cup.
Yes, Spurs have always been a big, glamour club (although through the 90's they were a bit of a joke at times and we regularly beat them). And I know they've always been financially backed.
But to say expectations haven't been raised under Levy is ridiculous. Its plain and obvious they have. My Spurs mates will support that too. Yes, it may be expectation to the point of sometimes being deluded, but its expectation none the less.
And that is where we need to be aiming for. Average league position of 5th and qualifying for CL regularly. And, as a club, we have the foundation to do that. It's just that we have a board that settles for mediocre and a manager that settles for mediocre. And both board and manager think we should be grateful.
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Eerie Descent
12:41 Tue Nov 28
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Obviously like all of us, I loved our Cup win, but let's not kid ourselves about what that competition is. Spurs fucking forfeited a game so they didn't have to play in it, and that's a club absolutely desperate for a trophy.
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Come On You Irons
12:32 Tue Nov 28
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This thread is still rumbling along. 10,000 posts and counting now discussing a manager to led us to 6th and 7th in his first two full seasons, our first major trophy for 43 years in his third full season and who has won more games than lost in the league so far this season while we sit comfortably in the top 10.
Moyes is NOT GOING ANYWHERE until next Summer unless we lose multiple games in a row in the league (which we never do under him) and get sucked into a relegation battle (not going to happen). So why waste all your time and energy going around in circles discussing the situation.
Mods, this thread needs locking
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swindon hammer
12:27 Tue Nov 28
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Agreed with most of what you said about Moyes though.
Just felt the Tottenham comparison was a bit off.
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swindon hammer
12:18 Tue Nov 28
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Russ.
You say expectations under Levy for Tottenham have risen and he always given it a go and they are annually challenging for the top 6.
Well expectations have always been there for Tottenham and financially they have always given it a go over the past 40 years. Nearly all their managers have been backed financially even before Levy was there.
Tottenham have always been considered one of the big clubs in England and always had high expectations which is why it was always funny for fans such as ours when they would fail to reach those heights. Nothing has changed under Levy in that respect.
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RM10
12:09 Tue Nov 28
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How do you know what Tim wants?who do you want?again so many words saying the same thing, have a break.
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Sir Alf
12:01 Tue Nov 28
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“Moyes dies “ !!!
Not a Freudian slip should read “Moyes does” :-)
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Sir Alf
11:58 Tue Nov 28
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It’s essentially the league form that highlights Moyes limitations since around Xmas 2020/2021 it’s been mediocre to poor and inconsistent. To his credit, we now watch West Ham without that real fear of relegation every season and some will argue our current position is exactly what our net spend seems to predict ?
It’s really about where we go from here and whether we think Moyes can take us further, progress to near the top 6 and beyond, Europe every year? Most including me doubt that.
His tenure will end simply based on whether we qualify for Europe and our league position imo. If we qualify via league position ( unlikely imo ) it’s then about « style of play « but a harder argument to get rid of him. If he wins the Europa ( even more unlikely to the stuff of miracles) he will stay too.
I think he will make mid or low mid table and we will get knocked out of cups by qtr finals at best.
In the meantime it will be a hard watch as we ( again imo ) have players not best suited to Moyesball but equally it’s not disastrous and we can get some results to keep us in the middle of the table.
He’s not a bad person ( Moyes ), done a good job as an interim and will be remembered well but it’s about trying or having a shot at something even better and Steidten wants to and it’s highly unlikely to be Moyes that will be in charge. Moyes is from the era where the manager is all powerful. Steidten wants a coach and leave the recruitment, player development ( youth ) to specialists etc. A different / modern model hence parting of the ways seems inevitable in the summer ? Unless Moyes dies achieve the unlikely feat of European qualification again.
In the meantime, he will continue to frustrate the hell out of us with his football tactics, style, selections and use of non-use of players
Try to smile even if it’s a grimace :-)
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Russ of the BML
11:55 Tue Nov 28
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And that's the bigger picture.
I daren't even go into the details about Moyes' cons. It's too painful. i wouldn't even want to bore myself, let alone anyone else as the post would be far too long.
I'd just say that when it comes to almost every aspect of being a top level PL manager, Moyes, for me, is way down on the list right no of current PL managers.
I've seen enough. And I've also heard enough from sources within the club about him that tells me all I need to know.
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Russ of the BML
11:51 Tue Nov 28
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BRANDED 6:05 Mon Nov 27
Spurs not winning anything is not relevant to the point being made. They are annually challenging top six and one of the favourites for domestic cups (outside of City). And anything less than that is seen as failure. That's because under Levy the expectations have risen. And Levy has given it a good go. He's not always got his manager recruitment right but he's given it a go. And in that time they've come very close to winning PL and CL. Something that we are still light years away from.
We are scoring and winning games of course. But, come one, we limped home against a very, very poor Burnley team. Somehow beat Forest. Great points but far from convincing. Scraped by Luton. But then tonked by Brentford who could've had six and we were lucky to lose 3-2. Out muscled by a very average Everton side. Smashed by Villa. Our league form is as unpredictable as the weather. And, even the most positive Moyes fan cannot say we get results by attacking and being positive. Our intent from the kick off is not to lose. And it is generally dull.
Net spend does not equate to league position and results. You know that. A better and more progressive manager would get much, much more out of this current squad.
Yes. Semi and Final in Europe. But even now we don't look convincing in Europe. And the way we play is much more suited to Europe as many other teams play slower with a defensive mindset and set up not to lose. It's Moyes' bag, no doubt. It doesn't translate to the PL though where you need to be stronger, faster and play much more direct through the lines. You also need to deal with a much higher press, which we struggle with.
I am glad you agree on the fact that you want to be entertained and want more academy players.
Bottom line, we can debate all day about the pro's and cons of Moyes. My fundamental point is that I don't see him as the manager to take us forward from this point. He's reached his ceiling. He doesn't want to strive for anything more than what we are. That's my opinion.
We need a younger manager that sees West Ham being much more than it currently is and knows how to achieve it.
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Takashi Miike
9:52 Tue Nov 28
Re: Moyes Out
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when he arrived he had that holding role to himself with two players (8s) ahead of him, yet he soon found either soucek or jwp alongside himself rather than being advanced so I can't blame him if he drifts. he also has our best central attacking player in a withdrawn role on the left, it's shit and why we need a change
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