Stubbornness — on all sides

[WhereDoesThisEnd]

For as long as many of us can remember, West Ham have bounced between relegation fights and promotion pushes. In plenty of those seasons we got through because we stuck together and the place was loud when it mattered.This feels like one of those seasons where we could end up on the wrong side of the line. And if we’re honest, something around the club feels off.Since the move from Upton Park, I can’t help feeling that a section of the fanbase almost sees relegation as a punishment for Sullivan. But if that happens, the only people who really pay for it are the team and the supporters. A flat, divided crowd doesn’t help anyone. We’ve all seen on European nights that the London Stadium can be a great atmosphere when everyone’s at it.At the same time, it’s hard to know what Sullivan actually wants. He could probably have sold up for a big profit when we were pushing top six and doing well in Europe, but he didn’t. From the outside, it just looks like stubbornness on both sides.My kids don’t have the same attachment to Upton Park — they were too young. They just love West Ham as it is. Maybe that says something. Maybe those of us still hung up on the move need to accept it’s not changing, and maybe Sullivan needs to see that the relationship with a lot of the fanbase is worn out.Let the next generation just support the club without carrying all this baggage. Right now it feels like all of us — Sullivan and some of us older fans — are getting in the way.West Ham should be about what comes next, not just what’s gone.
 

 

[wils]

Same with the idea that hostility toward Sullivan is the club’s soul. I’m not sure I see it that way. For me, the soul was always the supporters backing the team regardless of who was upstairs. If that goes, that’s when something real is lost.

 

 

 

That works when the owners and the fans want the same thing. What's changed is the current owners now see us fans as fungible units devoid of culture or a sense of belonging to anything outside of the one thing they control, the brand. The only difference between each bum on the seat is that bum's potential for financial extraction. That's why the 'London' branding on the badge irks so many people. It's not intended to represent us but to dilute what it means to be 'us' in an effort to broaden its revenue stream.

To be passive about these things is accepting a shallow meaningless definition of what it means to be a fan and to acquiesce to a definition which plays nicely with consumerist culture. And to be fair, that attitude is probably in the ascendency in the Premier League grounds which is why the passion has been dying for a while now. And why many people in this thread are seeking it in non-league football.

[WhereDoesThisEnd]

Westham67
“I had no choice but to support West Ham. I am moving  from Canterbury to Whitstable in six weeks, near the "Oysters" ground, so I will start going over there”

I Know the Whitstable guys well. Really good club on the up. They will win the league this year and then the fun really starts for them. They will be promoted into a league thats very hard to get out of with clubs spending 250k plus a year on wages 

[Westham67]

I had no choice but to support West Ham. I am moving  from Canterbury to Whitstable in six weeks, near the "Oysters" ground, so I will start going over there

[stubbo-admin]

Interesting and broad responses from everyone.

I completely understand how Gank feels. I’d love to be back at Upton Park too. But I do worry that phrases like “we don’t stand back and let what matters get decimated” end up translating into flat atmospheres at must-win relegation games and those gritty six-pointers are what many of us grew up on. When we were in those battles before, the crowd dragged the team through.

Same with the idea that hostility toward Sullivan is the club’s soul. I’m not sure I see it that way. For me, the soul was always the supporters backing the team regardless of who was upstairs. If that goes, that’s when something real is lost.

At the same time, I do relate to what’s been said about generational change. Every generation experiences football differently. Younger fans don’t carry the same baggage about Upton Park because they didn’t live it. They just know West Ham as it is now, and that’s fair enough. The game moves on whether we like it or not.

I think I’ve reached the point where I’m making peace with that. Let the younger lot enjoy the modern version of the game. If they love it, that’s good for the club long term.

Personally, I find myself enjoying non-league more these days. It reminds me of what football used to feel like.  Clubs like Billericay, Brentwood, Hornchurch, Chatham, Dartford, Folkestone, Ramsgate because they’re drawing proper crowds (1000 plus) and chasing promotions for their towns. 

That doesn’t mean I stop caring about West Ham. I always will. I’ll still look out for the Irons. But maybe it doesn’t have to be the only place I get my football fix anymore. I'll leave it to the kids to enjoy their own version of modern football.

Just my honest take.

It's a good post and an understandable take. Welcome to WHO by the way....always good to have a new viewpoint.

[WhereDoesThisEnd]

Interesting and broad responses from everyone.

I completely understand how Gank feels. I’d love to be back at Upton Park too. But I do worry that phrases like “we don’t stand back and let what matters get decimated” end up translating into flat atmospheres at must-win relegation games and those gritty six-pointers are what many of us grew up on. When we were in those battles before, the crowd dragged the team through.

Same with the idea that hostility toward Sullivan is the club’s soul. I’m not sure I see it that way. For me, the soul was always the supporters backing the team regardless of who was upstairs. If that goes, that’s when something real is lost.

At the same time, I do relate to what’s been said about generational change. Every generation experiences football differently. Younger fans don’t carry the same baggage about Upton Park because they didn’t live it. They just know West Ham as it is now, and that’s fair enough. The game moves on whether we like it or not.

I think I’ve reached the point where I’m making peace with that. Let the younger lot enjoy the modern version of the game. If they love it, that’s good for the club long term.

Personally, I find myself enjoying non-league more these days. It reminds me of what football used to feel like.  Clubs like Billericay, Brentwood, Hornchurch, Chatham, Dartford, Folkestone, Ramsgate because they’re drawing proper crowds (1000 plus) and chasing promotions for their towns. 

That doesn’t mean I stop caring about West Ham. I always will. I’ll still look out for the Irons. But maybe it doesn’t have to be the only place I get my football fix anymore. I'll leave it to the kids to enjoy their own version of modern football.

Just my honest take.

[nychammer]

I blame most things on the corporatisation of everything. I see a lot of young people love this. They get what they expect to get from a corporation. It's predictable and does what it says on the tin. 

West Ham is brilliant because it rarely fucking does anything you expect. It's the joy of knowing you have no idea what the fuck is going to happen next. Sure its volatile and brutal on the emotions but when its great, like 2-0 up at Chelsea you have to enjoy that moment.

man, that first half was as good as anything i can remember recently. Talk about the rollercoaster of emotions though!

[BRANDED]

I blame most things on the corporatisation of everything. I see a lot of young people love this. They get what they expect to get from a corporation. It's predictable and does what it says on the tin. 

West Ham is brilliant because it rarely fucking does anything you expect. It's the joy of knowing you have no idea what the fuck is going to happen next. Sure its volatile and brutal on the emotions but when its great, like 2-0 up at Chelsea you have to enjoy that moment.

[nychammer]

I've accepted we'll never go back to what was. All clubs who make the move we did away from a ground we loved to a new home go through this. Most big clubs make a success of it eventually, my worry is that we have got the last 10 years wrong, so very badly wrong that we could eventually go to the wall. I think we have a stubborn owner who belongs in the last century in the way he conducts business, compounds bad decision upon bad decision and I think he has us with one foot in administration already. He thinks we are worth hundreds of millions but will end up selling for a nominal pound to someone who's willing to take on our debt.  We wont bounce straight back, not a fucking hope in hell of that. Anything decent about this squad is up for sale in the summer and we'll be left with Sullivan, his next cheapo managerial option, league one quality dross and the youngsters. 

[wils]

For as long as many of us can remember, West Ham have bounced between relegation fights and promotion pushes. In plenty of those seasons we got through because we stuck together and the place was loud when it mattered.This feels like one of those seasons where we could end up on the wrong side of the line. And if we’re honest, something around the club feels off.Since the move from Upton Park, I can’t help feeling that a section of the fanbase almost sees relegation as a punishment for Sullivan. But if that happens, the only people who really pay for it are the team and the supporters. A flat, divided crowd doesn’t help anyone. We’ve all seen on European nights that the London Stadium can be a great atmosphere when everyone’s at it.At the same time, it’s hard to know what Sullivan actually wants. He could probably have sold up for a big profit when we were pushing top six and doing well in Europe, but he didn’t. From the outside, it just looks like stubbornness on both sides.My kids don’t have the same attachment to Upton Park — they were too young. They just love West Ham as it is. Maybe that says something. Maybe those of us still hung up on the move need to accept it’s not changing, and maybe Sullivan needs to see that the relationship with a lot of the fanbase is worn out.Let the next generation just support the club without carrying all this baggage. Right now it feels like all of us — Sullivan and some of us older fans — are getting in the way.West Ham should be about what comes next, not just what’s gone.
 



 

Thoughtful post. I'm in the middle of this. My old man wants everything to be like it was in the 60s, which I can sympathise with up to a point. He resents the rowdy culture that came into the game in the 70s and that my generation in the late 80s and 90s wistfully tries to emulate. Then there's my son's generation who experience the game semi-online through Tik Tok which I have little time for. Every generation experiences the game differently and my attitude has been to let them get on with it. We were all fashionable once, at least in our mores if not our dress sense. As you say the future is theirs so let them make of it what they will and not bore them by tutting in disapproval for not doing it how we used to do it. So, yes, let them make of West Ham what it is now.

But having said that tradition is important. And if this club has a soul then that soul is transcendent through the decades. The 'sold our soul' chant is sung as fervently by the young as it is by us older lot. They know something is wrong as much as we do and it hurts them as much as it does us. Sullivan is kryptonite to everything this club is. The hostility to Sullivan is an expression of the club's soul and if we let go of that hostility, we let go of its soul.

[Monsieur merde de cheval]

Well, yes, all that is true but you're forgetting about the reasons why people choose to support West Ham in the first place. There will always be people who were born and bred nearby and have a natural connection, then there are those who are almost forced to support West Ham, like my kids, but for all the other fans, those who make a choice, it isn't for trophies. It's because supporting West Ham means a lot more than the results and the division. What's happened is a once in a lifetime massive foul up of a situation where the owner has created such a horrible environment that the fans have divided.

For a club steeped in tradition and recently on the cusp of progression, it's a travesty that this was allowed to happen so no, it definitely isn't time to step aside and just let it happen. We're never winning the league, so we don't stand back and let what really matters get decimated. We'll end up like MK Dons.

Amen

[Gank]

Well, yes, all that is true but you're forgetting about the reasons why people choose to support West Ham in the first place. There will always be people who were born and bred nearby and have a natural connection, then there are those who are almost forced to support West Ham, like my kids, but for all the other fans, those who make a choice, it isn't for trophies. It's because supporting West Ham means a lot more than the results and the division. What's happened is a once in a lifetime massive foul up of a situation where the owner has created such a horrible environment that the fans have divided.

For a club steeped in tradition and recently on the cusp of progression, it's a travesty that this was allowed to happen so no, it definitely isn't time to step aside and just let it happen. We're never winning the league, so we don't stand back and let what really matters get decimated. We'll end up like MK Dons.