West Ham Online

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 14:10

goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 13:25

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 13:12

And you can confidently attribute those rises to the increase in asylum seekers can you?

It can be identified as an exponential growth in cost over the exact timeline that the population has grown.
As pointed out to you, you don’t get an itemised tax contribution bill - but it only takes a small amount of common sense to see the two are intrinsically linked.

your original post stated that “I am not affected in a daily basis by immigration number”. Which you’ve shown yourself to be completely false.

Nope. I am not affected on a daily basis by asylum numbers rising. If I were my tax would have to go up each year at least but it doesnt. I think you are overthinking this. Its really simple. 

If year on year Im not taxed more how can I feel like I have been. Its about perception. I personally do not feel like I am taxed more directly due to rising asylum seeker numbers especially when one of the taxes falls significantly. Just like I dont feel like Im taxed more because of the support we have given to Ukraine which is far greater. Well did you feel like you were taxed more last year and do you blame asylum seekers or the invasion of Ukraine by Putin?

And in a year when my tax does go up. I personally do not jump to the conclusion that it’sdue to aslyum seeker numbers rising, especially as the cost of asylum seekers is small when compared to defence or education or the NHS.

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 14:10 BillyJenningsBoots

goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 13:25

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 13:12

goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 12:56

of course the tax burden is a burden for the general public, otherwise where do you think it’s coming from?

Why 5 years? The population has grown by 7m since 2000.

in that time my tax rate has increased (2010), my council tax has gone up massively, dividends tax has been introduced, capital gains went up, the main rate of NI contribution has been higher right up until April 2024.

that’s without talking about freezing the threshold for tax rates while wages have increased.

And you can confidently attribute those rises to the increase in asylum seekers can you?

It can be identified as an exponential growth in cost over the exact timeline that the population has grown.
As pointed out to you, you don’t get an itemised tax contribution bill - but it only takes a small amount of common sense to see the two are intrinsically linked.

your original post stated that “I am not affected in a daily basis by immigration number”. Which you’ve shown yourself to be completely false.

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 13:12

goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 12:56

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 12:31

Seriously!? Did I say it didn’t. But you are clearly not understanding that the tax burden whether its increased or not does not necessarily equate to an increase in tax on the general public.

You seem incapable of answering the question - what tax percentage or rate that you as an individual pays has increased in the last 5 years? Because that is all I am talking about.

of course the tax burden is a burden for the general public, otherwise where do you think it’s coming from?

Why 5 years? The population has grown by 7m since 2000.

in that time my tax rate has increased (2010), my council tax has gone up massively, dividends tax has been introduced, capital gains went up, the main rate of NI contribution has been higher right up until April 2024.

that’s without talking about freezing the threshold for tax rates while wages have increased.

And you can confidently attribute those rises to the increase in asylum seekers can you?

goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 12:56

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 12:31

goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 06:38 It’s pretty simple Billy - do you think significant (and fast) population growth has an impact on tax burden and access to public services?

if not, I’d love to hear your explanation as to why.

Seriously!? Did I say it didn’t. But you are clearly not understanding that the tax burden whether its increased or not does not necessarily equate to an increase in tax on the general public.

You seem incapable of answering the question - what tax percentage or rate that you as an individual pays has increased in the last 5 years? Because that is all I am talking about.

of course the tax burden is a burden for the general public, otherwise where do you think it’s coming from?

Why 5 years? The population has grown by 7m since 2000.

in that time my tax rate has increased (2010), my council tax has gone up massively, dividends tax has been introduced, capital gains went up, the main rate of NI contribution has been higher right up until April 2024.

that’s without talking about freezing the threshold for tax rates while wages have increased.

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 12:31

goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 06:38 It’s pretty simple Billy - do you think significant (and fast) population growth has an impact on tax burden and access to public services?

if not, I’d love to hear your explanation as to why.

Seriously!? Did I say it didn’t. But you are clearly not understanding that the tax burden whether its increased or not does not necessarily equate to an increase in tax on the general public.

You seem incapable of answering the question - what tax percentage or rate that you as an individual pays has increased in the last 5 years? Because that is all I am talking about.

goose wrote: ↑24 Feb 2025, 06:38 It’s pretty simple Billy - do you think significant (and fast) population growth has an impact on tax burden and access to public services?

if not, I’d love to hear your explanation as to why.

ironsofcanada wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 23:07

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 22:51

However it doesnt cost me more today than it did 5 years ago or 10 years ago so I dont feel any financial impact in my pay packet in fact taxes e.g. Ees NI went down reducing my tax burden so how does it affect me. Maybe Im just lucky that Im financially sound and dont need to worry about where every penny of my taxes are spent. I only think about it if my overall tax burden increases and I dont feel like it has! I mean VAT went up in 2011 way before the more recent rises in immigration so I cant see where taxes have increased at all.

Maybe you are right that Im apathetic as Im not affected. But some people get angry about immigration but I just am not. Maybe its because you are that you feel the need to point out the expense. I dont know!

 

Maybe to de-esclate a bit, I appreciate your honesty.  You came in hot calling people names in subject I care a lot about and I apparently matched that energy.  

My last few points were based in fact that your NI constributions are only about 21% (high estimate) of your tax burden.  You kept going on about that going down 2% but not mentioning at the other almost 80%, which at least according to the national average has gone up way more that 2% in the last year. We can do the math(s) on whether that means taxes have gone up. 

Overall, the "it does afffect me" reminds of the  "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist...."  Again something I feel strongly about.

Cheers and have a good night.

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 22:51

However it doesnt cost me more today than it did 5 years ago or 10 years ago so I dont feel any financial impact in my pay packet in fact taxes e.g. Ees NI went down reducing my tax burden so how does it affect me. Maybe Im just lucky that Im financially sound and dont need to worry about where every penny of my taxes are spent. I only think about it if my overall tax burden increases and I dont feel like it has! I mean VAT went up in 2011 way before the more recent rises in immigration so I cant see where taxes have increased at all.

Maybe you are right that Im apathetic as Im not affected. But some people get angry about immigration but I just am not. Maybe its because you are that you feel the need to point out the expense. I dont know!

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 22:51

ironsofcanada wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 22:11

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:51

And you seem to be grasping at straws because you dont get how taxes work.

Go on show me where and when any of the current or previous govts have specifically increased taxes due to Asylum seeker numbers increasing.

That budget has always been there as it covers all sorts of foreign aid and yes it goes up and down depending on the need and yes it goes up to cover asylum seekers but at no point in history has any govt raised the rate of VAT or Ees NI or Excise duty specifically to cover in incease in that part of the budget so it does not directly cost me more.

The cost of asylum seekers is so negligible compared to the overall budget that any increase or decrease in that cost wont affect the taxes the individual is asked to pay.

What dont you understand!

 

So unless you get a line item on your  taxes that says "For Asylum Seekers" you are not going to believe your taxes are going to the clearly defined costs in that area? Despite acknowledging they cost NHS and other parts of government and knowing your tax burden has increased.

Your VAT did not go down last year, for instance, did it? Your council tax?, Your Income tax? Etc. 

​​​​​​ Less than savoury politicians loved people like you when I was working in government.  Believed everything they said.

​
​​

Gooses point was that I am affected by asylum seeker numbers on a daily basis. I argue that I am not, your points are about tax rises costing me more.

However it doesnt cost me more today than it did 5 years ago or 10 years ago so I dont feel any financial impact in my pay packet in fact taxes e.g. Ees NI went down reducing my tax burden so how does it affect me. Maybe Im just lucky that Im financially sound and dont need to worry about where every penny of my taxes are spent. I only think about it if my overall tax burden increases and I dont feel like it has! I mean VAT went up in 2011 way before the more recent rises in immigration so I cant see where taxes have increased at all.

Maybe you are right that Im apathetic as Im not affected. But some people get angry about immigration but I just am not. Maybe its because you are that you feel the need to point out the expense. I dont know!

ironsofcanada wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 22:11

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:51

And you seem to be grasping at straws because you dont get how taxes work.

Go on show me where and when any of the current or previous govts have specifically increased taxes due to Asylum seeker numbers increasing.

That budget has always been there as it covers all sorts of foreign aid and yes it goes up and down depending on the need and yes it goes up to cover asylum seekers but at no point in history has any govt raised the rate of VAT or Ees NI or Excise duty specifically to cover in incease in that part of the budget so it does not directly cost me more.

The cost of asylum seekers is so negligible compared to the overall budget that any increase or decrease in that cost wont affect the taxes the individual is asked to pay.

What dont you understand!

 

So unless you get a line item on your  taxes that says "For Asylum Seekers" you are not going to believe your taxes are going to the clearly defined costs in that area? Despite acknowledging they cost NHS and other parts of government and knowing your tax burden has increased.

Your VAT did not go down last year, for instance, did it? Your council tax?, Your Income tax? Etc. 

​​​​​​ Less than savoury politicians loved people like you when I was working in government.  Believed everything they said.

​
​​

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:51

And you seem to be grasping at straws because you dont get how taxes work.

Go on show me where and when any of the current or previous govts have specifically increased taxes due to Asylum seeker numbers increasing.

That budget has always been there as it covers all sorts of foreign aid and yes it goes up and down depending on the need and yes it goes up to cover asylum seekers but at no point in history has any govt raised the rate of VAT or Ees NI or Excise duty specifically to cover in incease in that part of the budget so it does not directly cost me more.

The cost of asylum seekers is so negligible compared to the overall budget that any increase or decrease in that cost wont affect the taxes the individual is asked to pay.

What dont you understand!

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:59

ironsofcanada wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:43

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:35

Who said there wasnt a cost and I never said we should be paying more or should be letting more in. The argument started by Goose or some other idiot was that increased numbers of Asylum seekers costs ME more in tax.

As I have explained numerous times my taxes have not risen due to asylum seeker numbers rising. In fact last year they were reduced by 2%. I agreed the distribution of my tax may have changed to cover the cost of them but my overall tax bill that I pay either from my salary or VAT etc has not increased.

By all means change the argument after you lose the first one you are good at that!!

 

Let's take slow, so I am clear.

You know that your EES NI is not the sum total your tax burden right?  That is what you said went down 2%.

I guess what do you think EES NI means?

Its a waste of time you dont understamd any of it do you.

You thought Ers NI was a tax on the individual!!!!

You are just being pedantic my Ees NI went down by 2% points therefore my tax was reduced not overall by 2% but it still went down significantly. Or are you jow just going to pick me up on that and again change the argument.

Simple question did the taxes I pay rise last year? Answer no they went down.

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:51

goose wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:32

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:23

 

Ffs you really have no idea do you. April 24 Ees NI went down from 10 to 8%.

Are you now going to argue that Ees NI is not a tax

I’m asking billy son, because you seem to think that a pre election sweetner (as you admitted) is somehow a reflection of the change in tax burden over the last 20 years. 

honestly, you’re so out of your depth it’s astounding to read.

 

And you seem to be grasping at straws because you dont get how taxes work.

Go on show me where and when any of the current or previous govts have specifically increased taxes due to Asylum seeker numbers increasing.

That budget has always been there as it covers all sorts of foreign aid and yes it goes up and down depending on the need and yes it goes up to cover asylum seekers but at no point in history has any govt raised the rate of VAT or Ees NI or Excise duty specifically to cover in incease in that part of the budget so it does not directly cost me more.

The cost of asylum seekers is so negligible compared to the overall budget that any increase or decrease in that cost wont affect the taxes the individual is asked to pay.

What dont you understand!

goose wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:46 “Over the past decade, the financial impact of illegal immigration on UK taxpayers has escalated significantly. In the fiscal year 2019/20, the Home Office planned to spend £430 million on asylum, border, visa, and passport operations. However, by 2023/24, actual spending had surged to approximately £4 billion, reflecting a substantial increase in costs associated with managing illegal immigration and asylum seekers.”

ironsofcanada wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:43

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:35

Who said there wasnt a cost and I never said we should be paying more or should be letting more in. The argument started by Goose or some other idiot was that increased numbers of Asylum seekers costs ME more in tax.

As I have explained numerous times my taxes have not risen due to asylum seeker numbers rising. In fact last year they were reduced by 2%. I agreed the distribution of my tax may have changed to cover the cost of them but my overall tax bill that I pay either from my salary or VAT etc has not increased.

By all means change the argument after you lose the first one you are good at that!!

 

Let's take slow, so I am clear.

You know that your EES NI is not the sum total your tax burden right?  That is what you said went down 2%.

I guess what do you think EES NI means?

goose wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:32

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:23

goose wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:02

Reduced by 2% since when exactly? And which tax are we talking about?

 

Ffs you really have no idea do you. April 24 Ees NI went down from 10 to 8%.

Are you now going to argue that Ees NI is not a tax

I’m asking billy son, because you seem to think that a pre election sweetner (as you admitted) is somehow a reflection of the change in tax burden over the last 20 years. 

honestly, you’re so out of your depth it’s astounding to read.

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:35

Who said there wasnt a cost and I never said we should be paying more or should be letting more in. The argument started by Goose or some other idiot was that increased numbers of Asylum seekers costs ME more in tax.

As I have explained numerous times my taxes have not risen due to asylum seeker numbers rising. In fact last year they were reduced by 2%. I agreed the distribution of my tax may have changed to cover the cost of them but my overall tax bill that I pay either from my salary or VAT etc has not increased.

By all means change the argument after you lose the first one you are good at that!!

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:35

ironsofcanada wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:11

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 20:51 BillyJenningsBoots

 

Sorry, mate

Are you naive enough to believe the government honestly tells you exactly what they are doing with your money?  It's political suicide. If you believe it has and will never abuse surveilence power...I guess you might be. 

But just in this specific area - your taxes have risen to pay for the increased cost of the NHS, you said asylum seekers add to the cost of the NHS.  You therefore are paying more taxes because of it - by your statements. 


Please fill yer boots arguing that the UK should be paying more to support asylum seekers because...its the right thing to do. Its a postion.  But please don't pretend there isn't a cost and that the cost is not carried by the taxpayer. 

Have a good Sunday. 

 

Who said there wasnt a cost and I never said we should be paying more or should be letting more in. The argument started by Goose or some other idiot was that increased numbers of Asylum seekers costs ME more in tax.

As I have explained numerous times my taxes have not risen due to asylum seeker numbers rising. In fact last year they were reduced by 2%. I agreed the distribution of my tax may have changed to cover the cost of them but my overall tax bill that I pay either from my salary or VAT etc has not increased.

By all means change the argument after you lose the first one you are good at that!!

So in 10 years the tax burden has gone up for everyone except you?  

in the meantime the uk population has grown by 4.2m people. Absolutely no link between the two facts.

ironsofcanada wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:27

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 20:54

Nope! because the question was do I pay more tax due to increased Asylum seekers costs and I dont as I said in fact my tax has actually been reduced by 2%.

Case closed!

Wait one second.

Surely you don't think that that your ERS NI is the only indication of the tax you pay?

ironsofcanada wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 21:11

BillyJenningsBoots wrote: ↑23 Feb 2025, 20:51 BillyJenningsBoots

 

Sorry, mate

Are you naive enough to believe the government honestly tells you exactly what they are doing with your money?  It's political suicide. If you believe it has and will never abuse surveilence power...I guess you might be. 

But just in this specific area - your taxes have risen to pay for the increased cost of the NHS, you said asylum seekers add to the cost of the NHS.  You therefore are paying more taxes because of it - by your statements. 


Please fill yer boots arguing that the UK should be paying more to support asylum seekers because...its the right thing to do. Its a postion.  But please don't pretend there isn't a cost and that the cost is not carried by the taxpayer. 

Have a good Sunday.