West Ham United 25/26 relegation thread

[muskie]

Odds slashed from 5/1 to 7/2.

Watch this space.

I think we're fucked.

[Westside]

Why do you keep saying he’s gonna pocket loads of cash when that simply isn’t the case?

the clubs most valuable asset is premier league membership. With that comes a couple of hundred million of income every year.

As Goose says, buyers are not primarily interested in physical assets like the training ground, players etc. Buyers are after Premier League income streams and the potential to grow the value of the club (on pitch success, getting more money buy finishing higher up the league European football etc). None of which we are guaranteed and looking less likely by the match, for us.

And for those of you convinced that Sullivan can "trouser" player sale proceeds, please explain the mechanics of this.

I am firmly in the fuck off Sullivan camp  (yes, I've signed the petition). There are many brickbats to smash him with, but selling players to line his pockets, isn't one of them.

Wouldn't he have he done that when we sold Rice, for a pure profit north of £100 million, if he was going to do it?

All that and much, much more has been spent on players (very badly), why would that have happened if Sullivan wanted to asset strip players for cash?

[goose]

Why do you keep saying he’s gonna pocket loads of cash when that simply isn’t the case?

the clubs most valuable asset is premier league membership. With that comes a couple of hundred million of income every year.

[Rossal]

Honestly mate, that's a proper long of old gunk you're spouting there.

there's plenty of intel, videos and people de-constructing the accounts to back it all up.  You can't keep spending £40m on Kilmans, JWP, Hallers, giving 100k a with to Guido with fuck all in return and expect us to keep going. 

[XKhammer]

How exactly is he going to "pocket the cash" from player sales?
(spoiler alert - he can't)

the only way Sullivan makes any money is by selling his shares.
40 odd % of £800m is worth much more than 40 odd % of £300m.



 

And by lending money to the club with insane interest 

Utter rubbish 
lf you want to beat Sullivan do it with facts rather than fairytales 
Unusually l have to agree with goose 

[Eerie Decent]

Honestly mate, that's a proper load of old gunk you're spouting there.

[Rossal]

It's fucking BIZARRE to think the owner of a billion pound asset would be happy to roll the dice, shave off at least 50% of it's value, and hope to pick up a few million quid for players sales that are not guaranteed.

There is nothing sinister going on ffs. The man is just fucking incompetent at running a football club in the modern era.

We've run out of money.  Years of borrowing fuck loads and spending it on shit with no returns will finally catch up with us.   To stay in the prem we need massive shareholder investment or he can go down pocket loads of cash and try and bounce back up......or fuck off. 

Also are we a billion pound asset?  We have TV money and some decent players what else is there?   some porta-cabins in Rush Green ......

Look at the state he left Birmingham City in, why does everyone assume he will do different here.....and that was when he owned the stadium as an asset ffs. 

[Massive Attack]

Definitely down to incompetency. 

[Westside]

Listened to the Bobby Moore Stand last night.  Anyone know if they are in the loop well or not?  

They had a section describing our finances and basically if we go down we sound absolutely fucked financially. We've borrowed and mortgaged our selves up to the eyeballs and we still owe shit loads on transfer payments and wrote off most of our incoming payments to buy the shit that we have the last 2-3 years. 

That investment in players has provided nothing but players worth a fraction of what we bought them for. It all just sounds one big mess. 

The main guy, Gary is it?   is convinced Sullivan is happy to go down to strip the squad of most its value and then scarper. As we don't own a stadium or much in assets is the most valuable part of the club the squad. He can strip that then sell it for whatever he wants and fuck off into the sunset with his brass of a mrs. 





 

 

 

To be an asset stripping firesale of players, walk off into the sunset with the cash scenario (via a huge one off dividend), with Sullivan only owning 38.8% of the shares at least one other shareholder (more shareholders dependant on which one involved)  would have to agree to the process.

If he sold his shares he would pay Capital Gains Tax, but the original purchase costs of his shares would be deducted in calulating the tax bill. No such deduction if a dividend is taken His likely dividend tax rate would be 39.75% (current rate) as opposed to 24% Capital Gains Tax.

Given the above, there is no way Sullivan will clean out his cash, with a dividend, rather than selling up. And the value of the club sold (even if relegated) would be massively higher ( a multiple of at least 5) than the amount that could be taken in dividends (limited by company law, in West Ham's case maximum dividend, would be the current year profit).

He stopped taking loan interest over 4 years ago, when the loans were repaid and he was charging an insane 4% (higher in earlier years).

Our credit card is maxed out. We owe masses on player transfers (£190 million at 31/05/2024) and as others have said virtually nothing left on player sales incoming (Kudus excepted) as the Rice debt was sold at a discount, to fund summer 2024 transfer expenditure.

The accounts for last seaon will be revealing. These are normally published mid January (not leaglly due until the end of February) and will give a very good indication of our PSR limits.

[Eerie Decent]

It's fucking BIZARRE to think the owner of a billion pound asset would be happy to roll the dice, shave off at least 50% of it's value, and hope to pick up a few million quid for players sales that are not guaranteed.

There is nothing sinister going on ffs. The man is just fucking incompetent at running a football club in the modern era.

[Mad Ferret]

Rossknowsfuckall spouting bullshit as per.

[goose]

If he cared about the club why would he charge interest on the loans in the first place. If he was a FAN with millions in the bank already.....surely any loans to benefit HIS club would be interest free 

And as for not pocketing any cash, have you seen the sale of Upton Park and heard of Barry Silkman? 

this isn't about him caring about the club. the point is he cannot "pocket" any money from player sales and he cannot charge the club interest on a loan which isn't fair market value.

Course he can. That's why he has used Silkman for years. It's also why everyone sings where's the fucking money......... money goes into that club he can syphon it off to wherever he likes 

Utter nonsense sorry. There is no money being 'syphoned' out of the club accounts.

Every set of club accounts gets signed off by Deloitte. You think they are in on this as well?
On top of that all agency fees for every transfer are declared to the FA, audited and published every year.

[Rossal]

he cannot do that.
PSR has rules about fair market value on interest charged on shareholder loans.

plus he doesnt have the money to loan the club, and if the club went to shit his loan would too.

If he cared about the club why would he charge interest on the loans in the first place. If he was a FAN with millions in the bank already.....surely any loans to benefit HIS club would be interest free 

And as for not pocketing any cash, have you seen the sale of Upton Park and heard of Barry Silkman? 

this isn't about him caring about the club. the point is he cannot "pocket" any money from player sales and he cannot charge the club interest on a loan which isn't fair market value.

Course he can. That's why he has used Silkman for years. It's also why everyone sings where's the fucking money......... money goes into that club he can syphon it off to wherever he likes 

[goose]

And by lending money to the club with insane interest 

he cannot do that.
PSR has rules about fair market value on interest charged on shareholder loans.

plus he doesnt have the money to loan the club, and if the club went to shit his loan would too.

If he cared about the club why would he charge interest on the loans in the first place. If he was a FAN with millions in the bank already.....surely any loans to benefit HIS club would be interest free 

And as for not pocketing any cash, have you seen the sale of Upton Park and heard of Barry Silkman? 

this isn't about him caring about the club. the point is he cannot "pocket" any money from player sales and he cannot charge the club interest on a loan which isn't fair market value.

[Rossal]

How exactly is he going to "pocket the cash" from player sales?
(spoiler alert - he can't)

the only way Sullivan makes any money is by selling his shares.
40 odd % of £800m is worth much more than 40 odd % of £300m.





 

And by lending money to the club with insane interest 

he cannot do that.
PSR has rules about fair market value on interest charged on shareholder loans.

plus he doesnt have the money to loan the club, and if the club went to shit his loan would too.

If he cared about the club why would he charge interest on the loans in the first place. If he was a FAN with millions in the bank already.....surely any loans to benefit HIS club would be interest free 

And as for not pocketing any cash, have you seen the sale of Upton Park and heard of Barry Silkman? 

[threesixty]

Looking at Moyes first time with us vs Nuno’s it does look pretty similar. I think Nuno’s had a month more but I think both started out pretty slow and improved after the Jan window. Moyes kept us up with 2 games to go, but there was some massive spankings against us. 

I did always think it took Moyes time to get us organised and work out a way to get out. I don’t think he had much money in Jan (we got Jao I think?). I think Moyes came in to a very dysfunctional club in the same way Nuno has. 

I still think it’s too early to write us off. 

[goose]

How exactly is he going to "pocket the cash" from player sales?
(spoiler alert - he can't)

the only way Sullivan makes any money is by selling his shares.
40 odd % of £800m is worth much more than 40 odd % of £300m.




 

And by lending money to the club with insane interest 

he cannot do that.
PSR has rules about fair market value on interest charged on shareholder loans.

plus he doesnt have the money to loan the club, and if the club went to shit his loan would too.

[Keep dreaming]

How exactly is he going to "pocket the cash" from player sales?
(spoiler alert - he can't)

the only way Sullivan makes any money is by selling his shares.
40 odd % of £800m is worth much more than 40 odd % of £300m.


 

And by lending money to the club with insane interest 

[southbankbornnbred]

Bowen would fetch £60M after relegation. £80M if they sold him in January. Bet Sullivans getting itchy hoofs to sell now rather than when we drop..

I'd be OK with it if they promised to fuck off afterwards. I think it would be quite exciting to build a young squad under new owners in the championship that develops over a number of years and then comes up to the Premier league. It'd be a nice change to actually like the team rather than have to root for a bunch of fucking opportunist journeyman mercenary cunts who couldn't give a sad wank for the club. 

But until they fuck off I'm going to have to keep wishing and hoping for Sully's helicopter to crash into Bradys house in an enormous fucking fireball. 

Vexed, there, summing up the situation in beautiful, characteristic fashion.

[Sir Alf]

Ultimately youre right that Vexed that there is no future under Sullivan and Brady and the other shareholders that enable them. But as I mention elsewhere, championship or league 1 football will be no worse an experience. Its just that stadium, giving BS and co money that will still hurt.  

[goose]

How exactly is he going to "pocket the cash" from player sales?
(spoiler alert - he can't)

the only way Sullivan makes any money is by selling his shares.
40 odd % of £800m is worth much more than 40 odd % of £300m.

 

[Rossal]

Listened to the Bobby Moore Stand last night.  Anyone know if they are in the loop well or not?  

They had a section describing our finances and basically if we go down we sound absolutely fucked financially. We've borrowed and mortgaged our selves up to the eyeballs and we still owe shit loads on transfer payments and wrote off most of our incoming payments to buy the shit that we have the last 2-3 years. 

That investment in players has provided nothing but players worth a fraction of what we bought them for. It all just sounds one big mess. 

The main guy, Gary is it?   is convinced Sullivan is happy to go down to strip the squad of most its value and then scarper. As we don't own a stadium or much in assets is the most valuable part of the club the squad. He can strip that then sell it for whatever he wants and fuck off into the sunset with his brass of a mrs. 





 

 

I don’t see the logic of wiping millions of pounds of value off the club due to relegation, then even more by selling what he can player wise seen as due to relegation he’s not going to get decent offers for most of them and decreasing the value of the club even more on the process before finally selling it for peanuts because no one will want it for more than that after all he’s done. Surely best to try and keep the value of the club at its highest. I’d have thought he’s been clinging on to get hold of the stadium before selling. Admittedly us getting relegated might help with that due to the even smaller rent costs we’ll be paying. 

However if he’s really feeling the pressure due to footballing and other reasons, maybe he will try and do that but he’s going to have to for once get real over his valuation of the club after all the damage he’s inflicted upon it and accept a far lower price than he’s been touting. 

I do not doubt the finances are fucked though. All these loans and whatnot and running the business on the never never will come home to roost. Sounds like imminently as well. 

Its more him just selling players and pocketing the cash which is easier to do if we get relegated.   

I am not even sure how you would go about valuing us if we go down, or if there are any buyers willing to take us on with no ground etc.... 

Going down and doing a firesale of the squad might be his most lucrative exit strategy 

[Vexed]

Bowen would fetch £60M after relegation. £80M if they sold him in January. Bet Sullivans getting itchy hoofs to sell now rather than when we drop..

I'd be OK with it if they promised to fuck off afterwards. I think it would be quite exciting to build a young squad under new owners in the championship that develops over a number of years and then comes up to the Premier league. It'd be a nice change to actually like the team rather than have to root for a bunch of fucking opportunist journeyman mercenary cunts who couldn't give a sad wank for the club. 

But until they fuck off I'm going to have to keep wishing and hoping for Sully's helicopter to crash into Bradys house in an enormous fucking fireball. 

[Massive Attack]

Bowen would fetch £60M after relegation. £80M if they sold him in January. Bet Sullivans getting itchy hoofs to sell now rather than when we drop..

[twoleftfeet]

YouTube channels are just click bait, they know as much as we do which is nothing.

[goose]

Listened to the Bobby Moore Stand last night.  Anyone know if they are in the loop well or not?  

They had a section describing our finances and basically if we go down we sound absolutely fucked financially. We've borrowed and mortgaged our selves up to the eyeballs and we still owe shit loads on transfer payments and wrote off most of our incoming payments to buy the shit that we have the last 2-3 years. 

That investment in players has provided nothing but players worth a fraction of what we bought them for. It all just sounds one big mess. 

The main guy, Gary is it?   is convinced Sullivan is happy to go down to strip the squad of most its value and then scarper. As we don't own a stadium or much in assets is the most valuable part of the club the squad. He can strip that then sell it for whatever he wants and fuck off into the sunset with his brass of a mrs. 


 

Gary is talking nonsense.