For as long as many of us can remember, West Ham have bounced between relegation fights and promotion pushes. In plenty of those seasons we got through because we stuck together and the place was loud when it mattered.This feels like one of those seasons where we could end up on the wrong side of the line. And if we’re honest, something around the club feels off.Since the move from Upton Park, I can’t help feeling that a section of the fanbase almost sees relegation as a punishment for Sullivan. But if that happens, the only people who really pay for it are the team and the supporters. A flat, divided crowd doesn’t help anyone. We’ve all seen on European nights that the London Stadium can be a great atmosphere when everyone’s at it.At the same time, it’s hard to know what Sullivan actually wants. He could probably have sold up for a big profit when we were pushing top six and doing well in Europe, but he didn’t. From the outside, it just looks like stubbornness on both sides.My kids don’t have the same attachment to Upton Park — they were too young. They just love West Ham as it is. Maybe that says something. Maybe those of us still hung up on the move need to accept it’s not changing, and maybe Sullivan needs to see that the relationship with a lot of the fanbase is worn out.Let the next generation just support the club without carrying all this baggage. Right now it feels like all of us — Sullivan and some of us older fans — are getting in the way.West Ham should be about what comes next, not just what’s gone.
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Stubbornness — on all sides
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BRANDED
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
Gary Strodders shank" wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026, 21:18 The game in general has now become heavily commercialised and heavily sanitised.
A grass line advertised on the back of seats in case you hear some hurty words that make you feel uncomfortable.
.
Say the wrong thing, sing the wrong song or fly the wrong flag and your out and won't be coming back anytime soon
I'm not of course condoning any kind of racist or homophobic language but the lines have become blurred and people are now being pulled up for venting there spleen or using a few swear words.
Its ost its humour earthiness and is becoming increasingly woke and middle class especially at home.
.
A lot of your traditional fans now feel as if they don't belong or are unwanted in favour of the new breed of consumer football fans with their popcorn and half and half scarves taking selfies and checking there football bets / fantasy teams rather than becoming invested in what's actually happening on the pitch.
Away from home however the atmosphere amongst the travelling faithful seems to be a lot better and a lot more raucous which is how it should be
Dont be such a poof
Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
The Neptune pub on the beach at Whitstable is run / owned by a West Ham guy iirc. Used to be, anyway.
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Gary Strodders shank
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
The game in general has now become heavily commercialised and heavily sanitised.
A grass line advertised on the back of seats in case you hear some hurty words that make you feel uncomfortable.
.
Say the wrong thing, sing the wrong song or fly the wrong flag and your out and won't be coming back anytime soon
I'm not of course condoning any kind of racist or homophobic language but the lines have become blurred and people are now being pulled up for venting there spleen or using a few swear words.
Its ost its humour earthiness and is becoming increasingly woke and middle class especially at home.
.
A lot of your traditional fans now feel as if they don't belong or are unwanted in favour of the new breed of consumer football fans with their popcorn and half and half scarves taking selfies and checking there football bets / fantasy teams rather than becoming invested in what's actually happening on the pitch.
Away from home however the atmosphere amongst the travelling faithful seems to be a lot better and a lot more raucous which is how it should be
A grass line advertised on the back of seats in case you hear some hurty words that make you feel uncomfortable.
.
Say the wrong thing, sing the wrong song or fly the wrong flag and your out and won't be coming back anytime soon
I'm not of course condoning any kind of racist or homophobic language but the lines have become blurred and people are now being pulled up for venting there spleen or using a few swear words.
Its ost its humour earthiness and is becoming increasingly woke and middle class especially at home.
.
A lot of your traditional fans now feel as if they don't belong or are unwanted in favour of the new breed of consumer football fans with their popcorn and half and half scarves taking selfies and checking there football bets / fantasy teams rather than becoming invested in what's actually happening on the pitch.
Away from home however the atmosphere amongst the travelling faithful seems to be a lot better and a lot more raucous which is how it should be
Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
WhereDoesThisEnd wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026, 13:31 Someone mentioned the recent modern football thread and I’m sure there’s probably been a “benefits of non-league” thread at some point too.
My point really is that what’s happening at West Ham isn’t unique to West Ham. It’s happening across football and, honestly, across life in general. Things change, priorities shift and each generation experiences things differently. Sullivan has almost become a symbol of that shift. A kind of living reminder that the game many of us grew up with isn’t the same anymore. That’s uncomfortable, but it’s bigger than one person.
My own reaction has just been to accept it for what it is. I hold my nose at times, still take my kids so they can experience West Ham as it exists now, and let them build their own connection to it. That’s their version of the club.
For me personally, I get more of my football enjoyment from non-league these days because it feels closer to the game I grew up with. That works for me without meaning I’ve stopped caring about West Ham.
I just don’t think “beating Sullivan”, however people define that, fixes what they’re really frustrated with. The game has evolved and will keep evolving. Fighting that head-on usually just leaves people more frustrated. That’s not surrender, it’s just recognising the world moves on and finding the parts of football that still give you joy.
You always hear 'the games gone' and I argue this with my old man, there is more interest in football now than there has been for many years. It was dying in the 80s and look at it now. The thing is, in my view, this isn't just an evolution that the older generation resent or just don't get. We pass down our support for our club as we want our kids to experience what we did. As football changes that experience will change and that's life. But whatever that experience is for your generation it can't happen at all if you aren't emotionally invested in the club. The ups and downs can only happen if you care and you can only care if you can belong.
That's what's under threat here, and that's why the stadiums are going quiet. Tourists won't scream and shout at the team they expect you to do it for them. You who care are as much a spectacle for them as the team on the pitch is. When they outnumber you there is no-one left to do the screaming.
I agree it's not unique to West Ham. I made a similar point posting the modern football thread. But this feels different because it's existential. I am sure football will be around in some form long after we are all gone. But I don't think the thread that binds the different experience we pass down to each generation will be. That sense of heritage is dying and it may be futile to think we can resist it. But we as its custodians shouldn't let it go gentle into that good night, we should rage, rage against the dying of the light.
That's what's under threat here, and that's why the stadiums are going quiet. Tourists won't scream and shout at the team they expect you to do it for them. You who care are as much a spectacle for them as the team on the pitch is. When they outnumber you there is no-one left to do the screaming.
I agree it's not unique to West Ham. I made a similar point posting the modern football thread. But this feels different because it's existential. I am sure football will be around in some form long after we are all gone. But I don't think the thread that binds the different experience we pass down to each generation will be. That sense of heritage is dying and it may be futile to think we can resist it. But we as its custodians shouldn't let it go gentle into that good night, we should rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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WhereDoesThisEnd
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
Someone mentioned the recent modern football thread and I’m sure there’s probably been a “benefits of non-league” thread at some point too.
My point really is that what’s happening at West Ham isn’t unique to West Ham. It’s happening across football and, honestly, across life in general. Things change, priorities shift and each generation experiences things differently. Sullivan has almost become a symbol of that shift. A kind of living reminder that the game many of us grew up with isn’t the same anymore. That’s uncomfortable, but it’s bigger than one person.
My own reaction has just been to accept it for what it is. I hold my nose at times, still take my kids so they can experience West Ham as it exists now, and let them build their own connection to it. That’s their version of the club.
For me personally, I get more of my football enjoyment from non-league these days because it feels closer to the game I grew up with. That works for me without meaning I’ve stopped caring about West Ham.
I just don’t think “beating Sullivan”, however people define that, fixes what they’re really frustrated with. The game has evolved and will keep evolving. Fighting that head-on usually just leaves people more frustrated. That’s not surrender, it’s just recognising the world moves on and finding the parts of football that still give you joy.
My point really is that what’s happening at West Ham isn’t unique to West Ham. It’s happening across football and, honestly, across life in general. Things change, priorities shift and each generation experiences things differently. Sullivan has almost become a symbol of that shift. A kind of living reminder that the game many of us grew up with isn’t the same anymore. That’s uncomfortable, but it’s bigger than one person.
My own reaction has just been to accept it for what it is. I hold my nose at times, still take my kids so they can experience West Ham as it exists now, and let them build their own connection to it. That’s their version of the club.
For me personally, I get more of my football enjoyment from non-league these days because it feels closer to the game I grew up with. That works for me without meaning I’ve stopped caring about West Ham.
I just don’t think “beating Sullivan”, however people define that, fixes what they’re really frustrated with. The game has evolved and will keep evolving. Fighting that head-on usually just leaves people more frustrated. That’s not surrender, it’s just recognising the world moves on and finding the parts of football that still give you joy.
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eusebiovic
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
nychammer wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026, 09:13 I've accepted we'll never go back to what was. All clubs who make the move we did away from a ground we loved to a new home go through this. Most big clubs make a success of it eventually, my worry is that we have got the last 10 years wrong, so very badly wrong that we could eventually go to the wall. I think we have a stubborn owner who belongs in the last century in the way he conducts business, compounds bad decision upon bad decision and I think he has us with one foot in administration already. He thinks we are worth hundreds of millions but will end up selling for a nominal pound to someone who's willing to take on our debt. We wont bounce straight back, not a fucking hope in hell of that. Anything decent about this squad is up for sale in the summer and we'll be left with Sullivan, his next cheapo managerial option, league one quality dross and the youngsters.
They have run the football side of the club so fucking badly that I don't know where they get this ridiculous £800 million plus valuation from.
If I was a billionaire looking to buy the club then I would not want to subsidise the debt they have built up from their shocking transfer activity and refusal to embrace a good scouting and analytics database which is an ongoing expense which at the very least gives you a net return every year compared what it costs to maintain every season which is up to £3million if Brighton are anything to go by.
That would be £250 million off the price right there.
I'd look at the shocking state of the training ground and all the different sites where various bits are located and think it's going to cost me at least £50 million to amalgamate and build a state of the art training complex.
Then I would notice that the club doesn't own the FREEHOLD to the stadium and think that's another expense that will cost at least another £50-100 Million to sort out. Then there's the question of a completely new refurb or even demolition and rebuild on the same site. How much would that cost?
So that's £350 million and counting...
Nearly everyone would walk away...unless it's a crazy oligarch or similar but even they would think twice about the economic viability.
It's an absolute shitshow.
If I was a billionaire looking to buy the club then I would not want to subsidise the debt they have built up from their shocking transfer activity and refusal to embrace a good scouting and analytics database which is an ongoing expense which at the very least gives you a net return every year compared what it costs to maintain every season which is up to £3million if Brighton are anything to go by.
That would be £250 million off the price right there.
I'd look at the shocking state of the training ground and all the different sites where various bits are located and think it's going to cost me at least £50 million to amalgamate and build a state of the art training complex.
Then I would notice that the club doesn't own the FREEHOLD to the stadium and think that's another expense that will cost at least another £50-100 Million to sort out. Then there's the question of a completely new refurb or even demolition and rebuild on the same site. How much would that cost?
So that's £350 million and counting...
Nearly everyone would walk away...unless it's a crazy oligarch or similar but even they would think twice about the economic viability.
It's an absolute shitshow.
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WHU(Exeter)
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
What Gank said.
also, “maybe Sullivan needs to see that the relationship with a lot of the fanbase is worn out”
Sullivan and Brady knew that would be the case from day one, as they tried to change the fabric of the fanbase, just like they did at Birmingham City.
They know best, which would be great if they actually did.
also, “maybe Sullivan needs to see that the relationship with a lot of the fanbase is worn out”
Sullivan and Brady knew that would be the case from day one, as they tried to change the fabric of the fanbase, just like they did at Birmingham City.
They know best, which would be great if they actually did.
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Gary Strodders shank
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
I watch non league football regularly but would never forsake a West ham game for it as they are still the club I love despite our current plight
Once you give it up and stop going then you are unlikely to return it's almost a case of use it or lose it
That first half at the bridge yesterday was a prime example of why i still go to games and the second half collapse typifies our fortunes and what you go through as a West ham fan.
It's the hope that kills you I guess but yesterday was nothing new.as we have all seen us snatch defeat from the jaws of victory on numerous occasions over the years.
As a young fan growing up it was all about the buzz of matchday and being with your pals and like-minded people .
The banter and the laughs the sense of danger sometimes too but it was in many ways a rite of passage .
I didn't sign up for a lifetime of glory and trophies I joined up because I loved the club the people and what they stood for.
I was in amongst the Chelsea yesterday as I can't get an away ticket for love nor money and it struck me watching some of their antics when we were two nil up that a lot of what we moan about is not unique.
Tourist fans aplenty, booing the team off at half time despite all they have achieved (bought) fans pissing off to the bar with 15 minutes to go to half time.
A muted atmosphere apart from our magnificent vociferous fans until they scored, and generally thinking they had the divine right to win (which is something we never display)
They are just a bunch of spoilt dim witted muggy boneheads basically and today despite the capitulation and the state of the club generally I'm still proud to be a West Ham fan and not one of that lot or of any other club.
As we all get older the number of fans coming through the gate at the bowl who have never been to Upton park will of course increase but its still important to keep the traditions alive and the values and ethos intact.
Support the team and if the football is shit still enjoy the day out.
Once you give it up and stop going then you are unlikely to return it's almost a case of use it or lose it
That first half at the bridge yesterday was a prime example of why i still go to games and the second half collapse typifies our fortunes and what you go through as a West ham fan.
It's the hope that kills you I guess but yesterday was nothing new.as we have all seen us snatch defeat from the jaws of victory on numerous occasions over the years.
As a young fan growing up it was all about the buzz of matchday and being with your pals and like-minded people .
The banter and the laughs the sense of danger sometimes too but it was in many ways a rite of passage .
I didn't sign up for a lifetime of glory and trophies I joined up because I loved the club the people and what they stood for.
I was in amongst the Chelsea yesterday as I can't get an away ticket for love nor money and it struck me watching some of their antics when we were two nil up that a lot of what we moan about is not unique.
Tourist fans aplenty, booing the team off at half time despite all they have achieved (bought) fans pissing off to the bar with 15 minutes to go to half time.
A muted atmosphere apart from our magnificent vociferous fans until they scored, and generally thinking they had the divine right to win (which is something we never display)
They are just a bunch of spoilt dim witted muggy boneheads basically and today despite the capitulation and the state of the club generally I'm still proud to be a West Ham fan and not one of that lot or of any other club.
As we all get older the number of fans coming through the gate at the bowl who have never been to Upton park will of course increase but its still important to keep the traditions alive and the values and ethos intact.
Support the team and if the football is shit still enjoy the day out.
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WhereDoesThisEnd
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
only1billybonds » 01 Feb 2026, 12:
I’m with you on this. For me, continuing to take our kids and grandkids and just letting them enjoy it for what it is isn’t giving up on the club. It’s making sure the connection carries on.
We had our version of West Ham and they’ll have theirs. If they grow up loving the badge and the club in their own way, that’s not losing something, that’s keeping it alive.
That feels less like letting go and more like making sure it lasts beyond us.
I’m with you on this. For me, continuing to take our kids and grandkids and just letting them enjoy it for what it is isn’t giving up on the club. It’s making sure the connection carries on.
We had our version of West Ham and they’ll have theirs. If they grow up loving the badge and the club in their own way, that’s not losing something, that’s keeping it alive.
That feels less like letting go and more like making sure it lasts beyond us.
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only1billybonds
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
This is about acceptance as much as anything else.
From the early 70's, I was in the 'never missed a home game' club after being taken to UP in the middle 60's by my old man. I first noticed a big change when it went all seater, the whole layout was obviously different and while being far from hideous,I wshed it had never changed from the shithole I fell in love with as a kid.
The recent Modern football fan thread covered many of the reasons why things are so different now so no point repeating them but on a personal level, iv'e accepted that regardless of whatever changes have occurred in the game/matchday experience, I've also changed. I went to UP for the first time still a kid ,I'm a grandparent now and my priorities have changed massively. The days when nothing got in the way of me going to a game have long gone and I'm more than comfortable with that. I have come to accept that UP has goneas hasvthat stage of my life and I don't feel the same about the game any more. Owners,players and managers will come and go but the badge and the club is forever, I'll always love West Ham but these days,they just aren't the biggest thing in my life anymore.I'm In total agreement with the OP, let the younger ones have it now and enjoy/suffer it for what it is. If they have half of the fun I had years ago their time wont have been wasted.
From the early 70's, I was in the 'never missed a home game' club after being taken to UP in the middle 60's by my old man. I first noticed a big change when it went all seater, the whole layout was obviously different and while being far from hideous,I wshed it had never changed from the shithole I fell in love with as a kid.
The recent Modern football fan thread covered many of the reasons why things are so different now so no point repeating them but on a personal level, iv'e accepted that regardless of whatever changes have occurred in the game/matchday experience, I've also changed. I went to UP for the first time still a kid ,I'm a grandparent now and my priorities have changed massively. The days when nothing got in the way of me going to a game have long gone and I'm more than comfortable with that. I have come to accept that UP has goneas hasvthat stage of my life and I don't feel the same about the game any more. Owners,players and managers will come and go but the badge and the club is forever, I'll always love West Ham but these days,they just aren't the biggest thing in my life anymore.I'm In total agreement with the OP, let the younger ones have it now and enjoy/suffer it for what it is. If they have half of the fun I had years ago their time wont have been wasted.
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WhereDoesThisEnd
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
wils » 01 Feb 2026, 12:22
I get what you’re saying about fans feeling treated more like customers and why things like the “London” branding annoy people. It can feel like identity gets diluted in the push for broader appeal. Anyone who’s followed the club a long time can understand why that jars.
Where I see it slightly differently is what we do with that feeling. The one thing owners can’t brand or manufacture is real support and atmosphere. That only comes from fans. If that disappears from the stands, it doesn’t hurt the owner much in the short term, but it does change what the club feels like.
I also think Sullivan has become a bit of a symbol at West Ham for the wider generational shift in football. The game is more commercial and global, and younger fans are growing up with that as normal. That change is happening across the sport, not just here, and it doesn’t vanish with a different owner.
Personally I’ve found myself enjoying non-league more these days because it gives me that older feeling of connection. But that doesn’t mean the next generation shouldn’t enjoy West Ham as it is now. Allowing and encouraging younger fans to support the team in their own way is probably how the club’s identity carries on, even if it looks different to what we grew up with.
I still take my boys when I can, I smile in the bowl, grab some food in a chain in Westfield and support the side - really for them. That’s their version of West Ham and they love it. Maybe that’s just football moving on.
I get what you’re saying about fans feeling treated more like customers and why things like the “London” branding annoy people. It can feel like identity gets diluted in the push for broader appeal. Anyone who’s followed the club a long time can understand why that jars.
Where I see it slightly differently is what we do with that feeling. The one thing owners can’t brand or manufacture is real support and atmosphere. That only comes from fans. If that disappears from the stands, it doesn’t hurt the owner much in the short term, but it does change what the club feels like.
I also think Sullivan has become a bit of a symbol at West Ham for the wider generational shift in football. The game is more commercial and global, and younger fans are growing up with that as normal. That change is happening across the sport, not just here, and it doesn’t vanish with a different owner.
Personally I’ve found myself enjoying non-league more these days because it gives me that older feeling of connection. But that doesn’t mean the next generation shouldn’t enjoy West Ham as it is now. Allowing and encouraging younger fans to support the team in their own way is probably how the club’s identity carries on, even if it looks different to what we grew up with.
I still take my boys when I can, I smile in the bowl, grab some food in a chain in Westfield and support the side - really for them. That’s their version of West Ham and they love it. Maybe that’s just football moving on.
Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
WhereDoesThisEnd wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026, 11:46 Same with the idea that hostility toward Sullivan is the club’s soul. I’m not sure I see it that way. For me, the soul was always the supporters backing the team regardless of who was upstairs. If that goes, that’s when something real is lost.
That works when the owners and the fans want the same thing. What's changed is the current owners now see us fans as fungible units devoid of culture or a sense of belonging to anything outside of the one thing they control, the brand. The only difference between each bum on the seat is that bum's potential for financial extraction. That's why the 'London' branding on the badge irks so many people. It's not intended to represent us but to dilute what it means to be 'us' in an effort to broaden its revenue stream.
To be passive about these things is accepting a shallow meaningless definition of what it means to be a fan and to acquiesce to a definition which plays nicely with consumerist culture. And to be fair, that attitude is probably in the ascendency in the Premier League grounds which is why the passion has been dying for a while now. And why many people in this thread are seeking it in non-league football.
To be passive about these things is accepting a shallow meaningless definition of what it means to be a fan and to acquiesce to a definition which plays nicely with consumerist culture. And to be fair, that attitude is probably in the ascendency in the Premier League grounds which is why the passion has been dying for a while now. And why many people in this thread are seeking it in non-league football.
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WhereDoesThisEnd
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
Westham67
“I had no choice but to support West Ham. I am moving from Canterbury to Whitstable in six weeks, near the "Oysters" ground, so I will start going over there”
I Know the Whitstable guys well. Really good club on the up. They will win the league this year and then the fun really starts for them. They will be promoted into a league thats very hard to get out of with clubs spending 250k plus a year on wages
“I had no choice but to support West Ham. I am moving from Canterbury to Whitstable in six weeks, near the "Oysters" ground, so I will start going over there”
I Know the Whitstable guys well. Really good club on the up. They will win the league this year and then the fun really starts for them. They will be promoted into a league thats very hard to get out of with clubs spending 250k plus a year on wages
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Westham67
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
I had no choice but to support West Ham. I am moving from Canterbury to Whitstable in six weeks, near the "Oysters" ground, so I will start going over there
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stubbo-admin
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
WhereDoesThisEnd wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026, 11:46 Interesting and broad responses from everyone.
I completely understand how Gank feels. I’d love to be back at Upton Park too. But I do worry that phrases like “we don’t stand back and let what matters get decimated” end up translating into flat atmospheres at must-win relegation games and those gritty six-pointers are what many of us grew up on. When we were in those battles before, the crowd dragged the team through.
Same with the idea that hostility toward Sullivan is the club’s soul. I’m not sure I see it that way. For me, the soul was always the supporters backing the team regardless of who was upstairs. If that goes, that’s when something real is lost.
At the same time, I do relate to what’s been said about generational change. Every generation experiences football differently. Younger fans don’t carry the same baggage about Upton Park because they didn’t live it. They just know West Ham as it is now, and that’s fair enough. The game moves on whether we like it or not.
I think I’ve reached the point where I’m making peace with that. Let the younger lot enjoy the modern version of the game. If they love it, that’s good for the club long term.
Personally, I find myself enjoying non-league more these days. It reminds me of what football used to feel like. Clubs like Billericay, Brentwood, Hornchurch, Chatham, Dartford, Folkestone, Ramsgate because they’re drawing proper crowds (1000 plus) and chasing promotions for their towns.
That doesn’t mean I stop caring about West Ham. I always will. I’ll still look out for the Irons. But maybe it doesn’t have to be the only place I get my football fix anymore. I'll leave it to the kids to enjoy their own version of modern football.
Just my honest take.
It's a good post and an understandable take. Welcome to WHO by the way....always good to have a new viewpoint.
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WhereDoesThisEnd
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
Interesting and broad responses from everyone.
I completely understand how Gank feels. I’d love to be back at Upton Park too. But I do worry that phrases like “we don’t stand back and let what matters get decimated” end up translating into flat atmospheres at must-win relegation games and those gritty six-pointers are what many of us grew up on. When we were in those battles before, the crowd dragged the team through.
Same with the idea that hostility toward Sullivan is the club’s soul. I’m not sure I see it that way. For me, the soul was always the supporters backing the team regardless of who was upstairs. If that goes, that’s when something real is lost.
At the same time, I do relate to what’s been said about generational change. Every generation experiences football differently. Younger fans don’t carry the same baggage about Upton Park because they didn’t live it. They just know West Ham as it is now, and that’s fair enough. The game moves on whether we like it or not.
I think I’ve reached the point where I’m making peace with that. Let the younger lot enjoy the modern version of the game. If they love it, that’s good for the club long term.
Personally, I find myself enjoying non-league more these days. It reminds me of what football used to feel like. Clubs like Billericay, Brentwood, Hornchurch, Chatham, Dartford, Folkestone, Ramsgate because they’re drawing proper crowds (1000 plus) and chasing promotions for their towns.
That doesn’t mean I stop caring about West Ham. I always will. I’ll still look out for the Irons. But maybe it doesn’t have to be the only place I get my football fix anymore. I'll leave it to the kids to enjoy their own version of modern football.
Just my honest take.
I completely understand how Gank feels. I’d love to be back at Upton Park too. But I do worry that phrases like “we don’t stand back and let what matters get decimated” end up translating into flat atmospheres at must-win relegation games and those gritty six-pointers are what many of us grew up on. When we were in those battles before, the crowd dragged the team through.
Same with the idea that hostility toward Sullivan is the club’s soul. I’m not sure I see it that way. For me, the soul was always the supporters backing the team regardless of who was upstairs. If that goes, that’s when something real is lost.
At the same time, I do relate to what’s been said about generational change. Every generation experiences football differently. Younger fans don’t carry the same baggage about Upton Park because they didn’t live it. They just know West Ham as it is now, and that’s fair enough. The game moves on whether we like it or not.
I think I’ve reached the point where I’m making peace with that. Let the younger lot enjoy the modern version of the game. If they love it, that’s good for the club long term.
Personally, I find myself enjoying non-league more these days. It reminds me of what football used to feel like. Clubs like Billericay, Brentwood, Hornchurch, Chatham, Dartford, Folkestone, Ramsgate because they’re drawing proper crowds (1000 plus) and chasing promotions for their towns.
That doesn’t mean I stop caring about West Ham. I always will. I’ll still look out for the Irons. But maybe it doesn’t have to be the only place I get my football fix anymore. I'll leave it to the kids to enjoy their own version of modern football.
Just my honest take.
Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
BRANDED wrote: ↑01 Feb 2026, 09:19 I blame most things on the corporatisation of everything. I see a lot of young people love this. They get what they expect to get from a corporation. It's predictable and does what it says on the tin.
West Ham is brilliant because it rarely fucking does anything you expect. It's the joy of knowing you have no idea what the fuck is going to happen next. Sure its volatile and brutal on the emotions but when its great, like 2-0 up at Chelsea you have to enjoy that moment.
man, that first half was as good as anything i can remember recently. Talk about the rollercoaster of emotions though!
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BRANDED
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
I blame most things on the corporatisation of everything. I see a lot of young people love this. They get what they expect to get from a corporation. It's predictable and does what it says on the tin.
West Ham is brilliant because it rarely fucking does anything you expect. It's the joy of knowing you have no idea what the fuck is going to happen next. Sure its volatile and brutal on the emotions but when its great, like 2-0 up at Chelsea you have to enjoy that moment.
West Ham is brilliant because it rarely fucking does anything you expect. It's the joy of knowing you have no idea what the fuck is going to happen next. Sure its volatile and brutal on the emotions but when its great, like 2-0 up at Chelsea you have to enjoy that moment.
Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
I've accepted we'll never go back to what was. All clubs who make the move we did away from a ground we loved to a new home go through this. Most big clubs make a success of it eventually, my worry is that we have got the last 10 years wrong, so very badly wrong that we could eventually go to the wall. I think we have a stubborn owner who belongs in the last century in the way he conducts business, compounds bad decision upon bad decision and I think he has us with one foot in administration already. He thinks we are worth hundreds of millions but will end up selling for a nominal pound to someone who's willing to take on our debt. We wont bounce straight back, not a fucking hope in hell of that. Anything decent about this squad is up for sale in the summer and we'll be left with Sullivan, his next cheapo managerial option, league one quality dross and the youngsters.
Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
WhereDoesThisEnd wrote: ↑31 Jan 2026, 21:43 For as long as many of us can remember, West Ham have bounced between relegation fights and promotion pushes. In plenty of those seasons we got through because we stuck together and the place was loud when it mattered.This feels like one of those seasons where we could end up on the wrong side of the line. And if we’re honest, something around the club feels off.Since the move from Upton Park, I can’t help feeling that a section of the fanbase almost sees relegation as a punishment for Sullivan. But if that happens, the only people who really pay for it are the team and the supporters. A flat, divided crowd doesn’t help anyone. We’ve all seen on European nights that the London Stadium can be a great atmosphere when everyone’s at it.At the same time, it’s hard to know what Sullivan actually wants. He could probably have sold up for a big profit when we were pushing top six and doing well in Europe, but he didn’t. From the outside, it just looks like stubbornness on both sides.My kids don’t have the same attachment to Upton Park — they were too young. They just love West Ham as it is. Maybe that says something. Maybe those of us still hung up on the move need to accept it’s not changing, and maybe Sullivan needs to see that the relationship with a lot of the fanbase is worn out.Let the next generation just support the club without carrying all this baggage. Right now it feels like all of us — Sullivan and some of us older fans — are getting in the way.West Ham should be about what comes next, not just what’s gone.
Thoughtful post. I'm in the middle of this. My old man wants everything to be like it was in the 60s, which I can sympathise with up to a point. He resents the rowdy culture that came into the game in the 70s and that my generation in the late 80s and 90s wistfully tries to emulate. Then there's my son's generation who experience the game semi-online through Tik Tok which I have little time for. Every generation experiences the game differently and my attitude has been to let them get on with it. We were all fashionable once, at least in our mores if not our dress sense. As you say the future is theirs so let them make of it what they will and not bore them by tutting in disapproval for not doing it how we used to do it. So, yes, let them make of West Ham what it is now.
But having said that tradition is important. And if this club has a soul then that soul is transcendent through the decades. The 'sold our soul' chant is sung as fervently by the young as it is by us older lot. They know something is wrong as much as we do and it hurts them as much as it does us. Sullivan is kryptonite to everything this club is. The hostility to Sullivan is an expression of the club's soul and if we let go of that hostility, we let go of its soul.
But having said that tradition is important. And if this club has a soul then that soul is transcendent through the decades. The 'sold our soul' chant is sung as fervently by the young as it is by us older lot. They know something is wrong as much as we do and it hurts them as much as it does us. Sullivan is kryptonite to everything this club is. The hostility to Sullivan is an expression of the club's soul and if we let go of that hostility, we let go of its soul.
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Monsieur merde de cheval
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Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
Gank wrote: ↑31 Jan 2026, 23:22 Well, yes, all that is true but you're forgetting about the reasons why people choose to support West Ham in the first place. There will always be people who were born and bred nearby and have a natural connection, then there are those who are almost forced to support West Ham, like my kids, but for all the other fans, those who make a choice, it isn't for trophies. It's because supporting West Ham means a lot more than the results and the division. What's happened is a once in a lifetime massive foul up of a situation where the owner has created such a horrible environment that the fans have divided.
For a club steeped in tradition and recently on the cusp of progression, it's a travesty that this was allowed to happen so no, it definitely isn't time to step aside and just let it happen. We're never winning the league, so we don't stand back and let what really matters get decimated. We'll end up like MK Dons.
Amen
Re: Stubbornness — on all sides
Well, yes, all that is true but you're forgetting about the reasons why people choose to support West Ham in the first place. There will always be people who were born and bred nearby and have a natural connection, then there are those who are almost forced to support West Ham, like my kids, but for all the other fans, those who make a choice, it isn't for trophies. It's because supporting West Ham means a lot more than the results and the division. What's happened is a once in a lifetime massive foul up of a situation where the owner has created such a horrible environment that the fans have divided.
For a club steeped in tradition and recently on the cusp of progression, it's a travesty that this was allowed to happen so no, it definitely isn't time to step aside and just let it happen. We're never winning the league, so we don't stand back and let what really matters get decimated. We'll end up like MK Dons.
For a club steeped in tradition and recently on the cusp of progression, it's a travesty that this was allowed to happen so no, it definitely isn't time to step aside and just let it happen. We're never winning the league, so we don't stand back and let what really matters get decimated. We'll end up like MK Dons.